Cincinnati vs Cleveland (Columbus, Akron, Dayton: employment, live, centers)

[1watertiger]

First off, Columbus is not the largest city/metro. Columbus has the largest population within its city borders. Big difference.
Both Cleveland and CIncinnati have many options for living , working and entertainment.
I personally like Cleveland because of our great lake, the metro park system and 3 professional sports teams.
Both Cleveland and Cincinnati have a high violent crime rate and poor public schools.
http://geology.com/articles/night-sa...t-night-lg.jpg

[1watertiger]

Also, Cleveland and Cincinnati have booming downtowns with fast growing downtown populations.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

Both Cleveland and Cincinnati have a high violent crime rate and poor public schools.

Som neighborhoods in Cleveland proper have high crime rates. Some City of Cleveland public schools offer very good educations.

Regardless, Greater Cleveland has some excellent school systems and suburbs that are relatively very safe.

Solon schools again rank #1 in Ohio on state report cards; Beachwood, Rocky River close behind (See state, Northeast Ohio, county rankings) | cleveland.com

16,000 high school seniors named National Merit semifinalists: See the Ohio list | cleveland.com

[Buckeye614]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

First off, Columbus is not the largest city/metro. Columbus has the largest population within its city borders. Big difference.
Both Cleveland and CIncinnati have many options for living , working and entertainment.
I personally like Cleveland because of our great lake, the metro park system and 3 professional sports teams.
Both Cleveland and Cincinnati have a high violent crime rate and poor public schools.
http://geology.com/articles/night-sa...t-night-lg.jpg

Columbus will pass Cleveland in metro population in the very near future. As it currently stands the three C's are pretty evenly matched population wise in their MSA's with Cincy being the largest (about 6.0% larger than Columbus) and Cleveland in second.

To the Op, I would focus on where you could get a better job and then go from there. You will find lovely historic areas, leafy suburbs and neglected areas in both cities

[motorman]

Originally Posted by WRnative

The key differential is likely your job prospects.

Read each city's forum for detailed answers to your questions regarding suburbs, etc. Both cities offer some excellent school systems, and $400 k housing budget should offer access to them. Do your research, then visit both cities so you can properly assess your priorities.

Originally Posted by motorman

Speaking for Cincinnati, while it's easy to extol its formidable assets and amenities, it would be helpful if the OP would describe his family's job situation and expectations and that he scan recent Cincinnati forum threads, wherein many such questions concerning fun, restaurants and culture have been favorably addressed.

Originally Posted by Buckeye614

To the Op, I would focus on where you could get a better job and then go from there.

It seems that there's nothing more helpful that can be said until we learn more about the OP's specific situation, especially regarding employment.

[216facts]

Originally Posted by Buckeye614

Columbus will pass Cleveland in metro population in the very near future. As it currently stands the three C's are pretty evenly matched population wise in their MSA's with Cincy being the largest (about 6.0% larger than Columbus) and Cleveland in second.

To the Op, I would focus on where you could get a better job and then go from there. You will find lovely historic areas, leafy suburbs and neglected areas in both cities

Well, not really true. If you're talking MSA populations, then yes. If you're talking CSA, then no. The population of metropolitan Cleveland is 3.5M (CSA). That's why we're the largest TV market in Ohio - by far. So Columbus AND Cinci are pretty far behind when it comes to population by CSA standards. In the recent past, the Cleveland area was measured with the Akron MSA included and therefore always came out on top in terms of population of metropolitan areas in Ohio.

Go Tribe.

[Buckeye614]

Originally Posted by 216facts

Well, not really true. If you're talking MSA populations, then yes. If you're talking CSA, then no. The population of metropolitan Cleveland is 3.5M (CSA). That's why we're the largest TV market in Ohio - by far. So Columbus AND Cinci are pretty far behind when it comes to population by CSA standards. In the recent past, the Cleveland area was measured with the Akron MSA included and therefore always came out on top in terms of population of metropolitan areas in Ohio.

Go Tribe.

Personally I feel that MSA's are more appropriate measure for someone seeking to relocate and concerned with a specific city and its suburbs amenities. CSA's seem to be a better measure for a regional scale for something like media markets, transportation corridors etc.

If we use CSA's, Sandusky is included in Cleveland, which seems kind of ridiculous since it 65 miles away and about an hour and 15 minute drive, essentially the distance between Columbus and Dayton.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Buckeye614

Personally I feel that MSA's are more appropriate measure for someone seeking to relocate and concerned with a specific city and its suburbs amenities. CSA's seem to be a better measure for a regional scale for something like media markets, transportation corridors etc.

If we use CSA's, Sandusky is included in Cleveland, which seems kind of ridiculous since it 65 miles away and about an hour and 15 minute drive, essentially the distance between Columbus and Dayton.

Tend to agree. CSAs may even do a decent job of showing which areas tend to align economically, culturally, etc. but the average Sanduskyite does not really spend much time at all in Cleveland, and probably couldn't tell you much about getting around the city. MSAs are different- higher chance that you actually work in the city and have more than the occasional reason to go into town.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by 216facts

Well, not really true. If you're talking MSA populations, then yes. If you're talking CSA, then no. The population of metropolitan Cleveland is 3.5M (CSA). That's why we're the largest TV market in Ohio - by far. So Columbus AND Cinci are pretty far behind when it comes to population by CSA standards. In the recent past, the Cleveland area was measured with the Akron MSA included and therefore always came out on top in terms of population of metropolitan areas in Ohio.

Go Tribe.

Do people actually use CSAs for anything other than in these types of threads?

Here are my thoughts on the best measurements to use for comparisons (depending on what you're trying to measure, the order can change):
1. Urbanized area
2. Distance from Downtown
3. Metro area
4. City limits

Big gap.

5. CSA

CSAs are just too large to be useful in comparing core areas. Oh, and CSA does NOT stand for "metropolitan area", so it's factually incorrect to say "metropolitan Cleveland" is 3.5 million. It stands for "combined statistical area".

Here is the population ranking order for all 5.

Urbanized Area 2015- This shows continuous connected development.
Cleveland: 1,766,653
Cincinnati: 1,657,840
Columbus: 1,477,852
Change since 2012
Columbus: +75,431
Cincinnati: +21,161
Cleveland: -973

Distance from Downtown 2010- This gives population totals for the same square mile areas out from the center of any city, so it standardizes the different city sizes. Only measured during the census.
Population at 78.5 square miles in 2010-roughly the size of Cincinnati/Cleveland
Columbus: 404,642
Cincinnati: 400,254
Cleveland: 361,475
Change since 2000
Columbus: -7,924
Cincinnati: -38,698
Cleveland: -69,977
Since 2010, there have probably been some changes to these negative numbers.
Population at 201 square miles in 2010-roughly the size of Columbus (or as close as the measurements get)
Columbus: 795,666
Cleveland: 719,218
Cincinnati: 685,958
Change since 2000
Columbus: +23,438
Cincinnati: -44,144
Cleveland: -110,030

Metropolitan Area 2015- The collection of counties that share strong connections with the core city.
Cincinnati: 2,157,719
Cleveland: 2,060,810
Columbus: 2,021,632
Change since 2010
Columbus: +119,658
Cincinnati: +43,139
Cleveland: -16,430

City Limits 2015
Columbus: 850,106
Cleveland: 388,072
Cincinnati: 298,550
Change since 2010
Columbus: +62,173
Cincinnati: +1,607
Cleveland: -8,743

CSA 2015- Collection of multiple micro and metropolitan areas in a region.
Cleveland: 3,493,956
Columbus: 2,424,831
Cincinnati: 2,216,735
Change since 2010
Columbus: +116,322
Cincinnati: +42,625
Cleveland: -22,050


So they all lead depending on which measurement you use, but this is how I view the order of most useful to least.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Do people actually use CSAs for anything other than in these types of threads?

Here are my thoughts on the best measurements to use for comparisons (depending on what you're trying to measure, the order can change):
1. Urbanized area
2. Distance from Downtown
3. Metro area
4. City limits

Big gap.

5. CSA

CSAs are just too large to be useful in comparing core areas. Oh, and CSA does NOT stand for "metropolitan area", so it's factually incorrect to say "metropolitan Cleveland" is 3.5 million. It stands for "combined statistical area".

Here is the population ranking order for all 5.

Urbanized Area 2015- This shows continuous connected development.
Cleveland: 1,766,653
Cincinnati: 1,657,840
Columbus: 1,477,852
Change since 2012
Columbus: +75,431
Cincinnati: +21,161
Cleveland: -973

Distance from Downtown 2010- This gives population totals for the same square mile areas out from the center of any city, so it standardizes the different city sizes. Only measured during the census.
Population at 78.5 square miles in 2010-roughly the size of Cincinnati/Cleveland
Columbus: 404,642
Cincinnati: 400,254
Cleveland: 361,475
Change since 2000
Columbus: -7,924
Cincinnati: -38,698
Cleveland: -69,977
Since 2010, there have probably been some changes to these negative numbers.
Population at 201 square miles in 2010-roughly the size of Columbus (or as close as the measurements get)
Columbus: 795,666
Cleveland: 719,218
Cincinnati: 685,958
Change since 2000
Columbus: +23,438
Cincinnati: -44,144
Cleveland: -110,030

Metropolitan Area 2015- The collection of counties that share strong connections with the core city.
Cincinnati: 2,157,719
Cleveland: 2,060,810
Columbus: 2,021,632
Change since 2010
Columbus: +119,658
Cincinnati: +43,139
Cleveland: -16,430

City Limits 2015
Columbus: 850,106
Cleveland: 388,072
Cincinnati: 298,550
Change since 2010
Columbus: +62,173
Cincinnati: +1,607
Cleveland: -8,743

CSA 2015- Collection of multiple micro and metropolitan areas in a region.
Cleveland: 3,493,956
Columbus: 2,424,831
Cincinnati: 2,216,735
Change since 2010
Columbus: +116,322
Cincinnati: +42,625
Cleveland: -22,050


So they all lead depending on which measurement you use, but this is how I view the order of most useful to least.

CSAs are extremely important as sources of support for the region's pro sports, cultural and financial services center, which is Cleveland in northeast Ohio. E.g. persons with strong Akron roots, such as the Bidwells, are very active in supporting both Akron and Cleveland culture. All of northeast Ohio rallied to exert the political pressure to create the Cuyahoga Valley National Park.