Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The thing I like about living in Oklahoma the most is the high concentration of Churches per square mile. When I see the crosses, I know people are concerned with traditional family values.
I like living in the Bible Belt.
I grew up in eastern OK and we had a lot of churches in our small town...of course, those of us who grew up there knew that we had so many because people could not get along. Most of the churches had been the result of a split from another church, usually because of some family or doctrinal disagreement. A lot of the time it would be because the pastor or some other church official got caught doing something they shouldn't have and some people would get angry and leave while others would stay. I know at least two of the bigger churches in my home town were split-off churches due to extramarital affairs.
Gladly. And because I'm starting the process to move there, I'll also keep the higher salary that would make me better off even when you factor in the market rate for my career and cost of living, I'll keep the economy that is more than 8x larger in that city than in all of Oklahoma, I'll keep the amenities and options that I couldn't explore in full in three life times, I'll keep the higher education ranking and higher educational attainment levels, I'll keep the aesthetics of the city... and well, I'll keep everything else it has Oklahoma City doesn't.
Also, the divorce rate in New York is lower than in Oklahoma. They're also harder to file and are far more expensive. That's not only a deterrent from divorce, but also encouraging people to think carefully before marrying. Part of why Oklahoma's rate is so high is because people here are in a rush to marry young. Maybe you should actually research before making those claims:
No question if I had to live in an American city I would take NYC over OKC any day of the week. As well as many, many, many other cities across the USA.
But I don't want to live in a city at all.
I lived in upstate New York for a couple of years recently. Was about 90 minutes north of NYC. we enjoyed going to visit NYC and Boston.
But while I made more money in New York than I have ever made anywhere else, I saw far less of my paychecks than I have anywhere else because of the tax structure.
Kind of like Portland, Oregon where I was living from 2009 to the end of 2012. I made about $1200 more per month doing essentially the same thing I do here in Oklahoma, but I didn't see of feel any of the extra money, even with no sales tax in Oregon.
On the other hand, I am looking forward, after a life of travel and moving, to settling down in a small town or rural area in Oklahoma. If I was younger and still wanted to be "out there" I can certainly see the benefit of the amenities many other places have, as well as the cultural climate.
No question if I had to live in an American city I would take NYC over OKC any day of the week. As well as many, many, many other cities across the USA.
But I don't want to live in a city at all.
I lived in upstate New York for a couple of years recently. Was about 90 minutes north of NYC. we enjoyed going to visit NYC and Boston.
But while I made more money in New York than I have ever made anywhere else, I saw far less of my paychecks than I have anywhere else because of the tax structure.
Kind of like Portland, Oregon where I was living from 2009 to the end of 2012. I made about $1200 more per month doing essentially the same thing I do here in Oklahoma, but I didn't see of feel any of the extra money, even with no sales tax in Oregon.
On the other hand, I am looking forward, after a life of travel and moving, to settling down in a small town or rural area in Oklahoma. If I was younger and still wanted to be "out there" I can certainly see the benefit of the amenities many other places have, as well as the cultural climate.
That's fair, Oklahoma does give you more bang for the buck. OKC has a pretty low cost of living for mostly the same basic amenities as anywhere else in America, especially for a married couple.
The question the OP has is, does it have better family values? I think Oklahoma talks more about family values for sure, but I'm not impressed by the actual practice of family values among many of my friends and family members, and the data backs me up. Oklahoma is pretty poor and people marry young even in OKC, so it's not surprising to me at all that divorce and drug/crime rates are high. It's hard to stay married when you don't have a steady job, especially in today's world where the female doesn't have to be dependent on the man. Also there's kind of a culture of single motherhood among the lower and lower middle classes in this state (married at 20, divorced at 28 with 2 kids). A few crosses on street corners aren't going to change that underclass culture.
Places like New Hampshire, where I also grew up, have much much lower divorce rates than Oklahoma. Higher educational levels and later age of marriage play a big role. Maybe not 100 years ago when women were entirely dependent, but certainly now.
That's fair, Oklahoma does give you more bang for the buck. OKC has a pretty low cost of living for mostly the same basic amenities as anywhere else in America, especially for a married couple.
Yes, I mentioned the tax structure in New York, but I should have also noted the general cost of living. Even upstate, it was outrageous. We spent around $2000 per year just on the oil furnace for heat and hot water, not to mention gas, food, rent/home prices, other utilities, etc., etc. all are considerably higher. Crazy. NYC will always be there if I ever want to visit again.
I also detested the winters there in the Northeast. Very oppressive.
But the history was amazing. Be driving along a small little blue highway and off to one side would be a Revolutionary War-era cemetery and such like that.
Quote:
The question the OP has is, does it have better family values?
Right. I don't think it does, in a typical, overall sense. But I do find, in general, the people of Oklahoma are kind, humorous and unpretentious, and that goes a long way with me. In a lot of places I've lived (speaking of cities specifically) people seem really invested in "out-weirding" or "out-elite-ing" each other.
Quote:
...A few crosses on street corners isn't going to change that...
I gotta say, unless you are coming from a very high cost of living area I don't know if Oklahoma is all that inexpensive, depending on your personal situation.
Feel like I spend more for food for the things I buy, because I came from an area that was a major ag producer nationally and food was inexpensive, also I didn't have to pay sales tax on it. Had a lot of sticker shock as far as what we spent on groceries once we got here.
Gas is cheaper per gallon here, but I have to drive a lot more so I spend more on gas. Same basic deal for many utilities....it's colder here so I have to run the heat more, so I spend more on utilities. But of course, it all depends on where you're coming from. And there can be differences between utility costs depending on where you live in the state as far as how each town/city manages their utilities.
As a homeowner, I was unhappy to find out that homeowner's insurance is very expensive compared to other states, I assume due to the tornado risk.
But do you have no shame for the casinos, lotteries and tattoo parlors in the state? There may be more places to buy a lottery ticket than there are churches. That's just for starters. Also do you have no shame that Oklahoma City has one of the largest gay hotels in America? That a Tulsa Baptist preacher would go sneak down there looking for sex is one of the biggest shames I ever heard of.
Are you talking about that thing on 44? I can't think of the name. If that's a large hotel, I'd hate to see the small ones. It's nothing but a run-down motel.
And P.S.: There are no casinos in Oklahoma City.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvxhd
I guess it depends on your interpretation of "family oriented." I believe Oklahoma hovers near the bottom in education. A number of states that are traditionally more liberal (which you implied are riffraff) have higher educational levels. I won't go into the details, but higher levels are a good long-term investment for the city and state. Just compare Mississippi to New York, and see which one has a higher concentration of businesses and high-paying salaries. If you don't like your children exposed to other cultures and don't want them to be more worldly, if you're more concerned with lower taxes than higher quality of life, if you want your children brought up in a place where conformity and societal norms are strongly encouraged... then yes, Oklahoma City is very family oriented.
Funny how you don't bother to compare the cost of living.
My $200,000 home on 2-1/2 acres would be completely unaffordable for all but the very wealthy in New York.
As a homeowner, I was unhappy to find out that homeowner's insurance is very expensive compared to other states, I assume due to the tornado risk.
Homeowner's insurance in some areas may be relatively high, but property taxes as well as properties themselves are relatively low. This is speaking statewide, not specific to OKC.
I'm shopping for houses now, and in general the houses you can get here for under $150K would easily be $100K more in Portland, if not double. And undoubtedly would be higher in most areas of New York.
My father has owned numerous homes in Oklahoma, and he moved for a time to Texas where he said purchasing a home was "financial suicide" due to the property taxes.
Location: The edge of the world and all of Western civilization
984 posts, read 1,192,551 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis
No question if I had to live in an American city I would take NYC over OKC any day of the week. As well as many, many, many other cities across the USA.
But I don't want to live in a city at all.
I lived in upstate New York for a couple of years recently. Was about 90 minutes north of NYC. we enjoyed going to visit NYC and Boston.
But while I made more money in New York than I have ever made anywhere else, I saw far less of my paychecks than I have anywhere else because of the tax structure.
Kind of like Portland, Oregon where I was living from 2009 to the end of 2012. I made about $1200 more per month doing essentially the same thing I do here in Oklahoma, but I didn't see of feel any of the extra money, even with no sales tax in Oregon.
On the other hand, I am looking forward, after a life of travel and moving, to settling down in a small town or rural area in Oklahoma. If I was younger and still wanted to be "out there" I can certainly see the benefit of the amenities many other places have, as well as the cultural climate.
Part of the issue for me is that OKC doesn't at all meet my needs. Having been here nearly three years, I think it's safe to say it's a lost cause. The longer I live here, the more I hate it. I loathe that people cheer gaining things in OKC that are just reclaiming things I lost in my move. Whole Foods is an example of that (I was used to several all over the city) and if IKEA, Total Wine or Trader Joe's ever open up here, each would just be once again having what I already had. I guess my point with that is that I can't share the enthusiasm, because I know how horribly far OKC has to go.
I understand why you don't want to live in a city, and why many don't. But cities with a lot of stimulation and a lot going on much better suit my tastes. To elaborate more on this thread, I think the fact that millions of people do raise families in New York indicates that it's a fine city for family life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Cooper
Funny how you don't bother to compare the cost of living.
My $200,000 home on 2-1/2 acres would be completely unaffordable for all but the very wealthy in New York.
Is that funny? I think it's funny you neglected to post what I also said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvxhd
And because I'm starting the process to move there, I'll also keep the higher salary that would make me better off even when you factor in the market rate for my career and cost of living...
Why do I care about your 2 1/2 acres? I have absolutely zero desire to have that much land. If that makes you happy, more power to you. I'm far more comfortable living in high-density areas where I can walk to the grocery store, restaurants, bars, etc. You're also leaving out why that amount of land is so expensive in New York and why it's so cheap in Oklahoma. The demand to live in New York is higher than the supply of available land, so prices are higher. The demand to live in Oklahoma isn't very high, so land doesn't go up in value very much. Just look at population increases: 2012 estimates of New York City exclusive of suburbs, showed an increase of 161,564 since the 2010 census. That's more than OKC (excluding suburbs) in not only the same time period, but since the mid-1980s. With such low growth, it's not surprising your acreage is so cheap.
The thing I like about living in Oklahoma the most is the high concentration of Churches per square mile. When I see the crosses, I know people are concerned with traditional family values.
I like living in the Bible Belt.
is this a joke? concern for family values? only the family values that belong to you? if its gays though they deserve punishment or they are sinful according to you? You're more proud of having churches than good schools- that says it all about Oklahoma. Religion has nothing to do with family values by the way. For the most part the church goers are just a bunch of brainwashed folks who have never considered anything outside their narrow viewpoints.
^You sound like the type of person you accuse "church goers" of being. Project much?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
