Would you consider OKC to be one of the most Pro-family cities in the US? (Oklahoma City: appointed, transplants)

[Guineas]

Originally Posted by WPDAWG11

Let me clarify by pro-family I am not talking about the divorce as much as I am talking about the cities strong promotion of the nuclear family and all that it has to offer.

You're kidding right? You can't just ignore the high divorce and single motherhood rate in the city and while you promote the nuclear family! A blended family and a family without one parent (not lost to death) are not what I consider a nuclear family. It's essentially serial polygamy. Turning a blind eye to divorce and out-of-wedlock births makes a mockery of the term pro-family. All it tells me is that you have a city that is the most hypocritical.

Your basic notion of family values is this: "Family values is everything my family and I do, and those are the things that should be promoted by the state; but if I get divorced, well everyone is a sinner and nobody is perfect, don't judge me."

It's all so very convenient.

[Griffis]

Originally Posted by johnspecial

I would rather live in a strong Christian state with wholesome family values.

Again, "wholesome family values" where the divorce rate is so incredibly high, where meth and prescription drug abuse is rampant? Where domestic violence and incidents of abuse and neglect towards kids and elders is also rampant?

Originally Posted by dvxhd

Conservatism has nothing to do with being pro-family (especially because conservatives tend to want to end social programs to benefit families and more education funding...

Well, the problem there is that the people calling themselves "conservatives" aren't actual conservatives. The Republican Party abandoned conservative principles several decades ago. What we have now instead is neo-con social conservatives. Just the opposite of true conservatives.

A real conservative would never, never ever endorse huge invasive nanny-state, Big Brother, big government intervention with regards to such things as abortion/reproductive choice or enacting systematic discrimination and bigotry as in preventing same sex marriage.

Endorsing such things is the exact opposite of conservativism.

Besides, if you look at voting stats, even predominantly red, Baptist Oklahoma votes around one-third blue, with more blue every election cycle. In the metro areas it's closer to 40%.

Not that I consider that a good thing necessarily, since I dislike and distrust Democrats every single bit as much as I do Republicans. I'll never vote for anyone from either of those parties for any national office, and no reasonable person should.

Originally Posted by johnspecial

Conservatives are for the traditional family...

But they support government intervention and intrusion into some of the most personal and individual aspects of the lives of citizens which is in no way an actual conservative principle.

Conservatives are for reducing handouts and favor hard work and capitalistic society.

Unless they are talking about corporate welfare and huge bonuses and tax breaks to oil companies, the wealthiest people, etc.

If a reasonable person should have learned anything from the politics of the past 40 years or so, it's that Republicans are every bit, 100% as irresponsible and incompetent with money and resources as the Democrats, and every bit as corrupt. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply either ignorant or deluded, or they are a hypocritical partisan hack.

[tkx7]

I'm pretty sure "johnspecial" is just a troll who is saying idiotic things to make OK look bad. He hasn't used any evidence in anything he's talked about on this forum.

[dvxhd]

Originally Posted by Griffis

Well, the problem there is that the people calling themselves "conservatives" aren't actual conservatives. The Republican Party abandoned conservative principles several decades ago. What we have now instead is neo-con social conservatives. Just the opposite of true conservatives.

A real conservative would never, never ever endorse huge invasive nanny-state, Big Brother, big government intervention with regards to such things as abortion/reproductive choice or enacting systematic discrimination and bigotry as in preventing same sex marriage.

Endorsing such things is the exact opposite of conservativism.

Besides, if you look at voting stats, even predominantly red, Baptist Oklahoma votes around one-third blue, with more blue every election cycle. In the metro areas it's closer to 40%.

Not that I consider that a good thing necessarily, since I dislike and distrust Democrats every single bit as much as I do Republicans. I'll never vote for anyone from either of those parties for any national office, and no reasonable person should.

I'm going by what he identified himself to be. Personally, I would consider johnspecial to be part of the religious right. He's a fundamentalist/extremist based on how he presents himself on this forum.

The Republican party is going to have problems in 2016 (and maybe this year too) if they can't find a way to mend this rift that has grown more recently (moderates, social liberals/fiscal conservatives, religious right, Tea Party, etc.). I see a lot of nostalgia for and fixation on Ronald Reagan in recent years, who would also lose an election using the same platform as he did in the 80s, because the Republican party has changed. Likewise, this Libertarian thing seems good on paper, but awful in practice. I would consider myself to be more like them, but the people running as Libertarians seem to preach the exact opposite of what their party stands for.

I think that red/blue dichotomy is highly inaccurate. I've heard Detroit called "the most liberal" city because its voting record is blue. However, I don't think that makes it liberal. San Francisco is far more liberal than Detroit. A good example is that the black community typically votes Democrat, though isn't generally accepting of gay rights. The 2008 election in California was a good example of that. Obama managed to get a lot of the black community out to vote, but that also really helped Prop. 8 to pass. Just because parts of Oklahoma vote blue doesn't make them liberal.

Beyond this liberal/conservative thing, I would say Oklahoma is just generally stagnant as opposed to progressive. I hate when people say progressive is equal to liberal, because they are different. In general, I would say nowhere in Oklahoma is very progressive.

Originally Posted by tkx7

I'm pretty sure "johnspecial" is just a troll who is saying idiotic things to make OK look bad. He hasn't used any evidence in anything he's talked about on this forum.

I'm inclined to agree, especially if you look at his posting history in other threads.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie

If Oklahoma has such strong, wholesome, Christian values, why didn't Oklahoma City succeed in getting "The Tin Drum" movie banned and Tulsa get Penthouse magazine banned?

Doh! Caught again, red-handed.

[Bass&Catfish2008]

Originally Posted by dvxhd

I'm going by what he identified himself to be. Personally, I would consider johnspecial to be part of the religious right. He's a fundamentalist/extremist based on how he presents himself on this forum.

The Republican party is going to have problems in 2016 (and maybe this year too) if they can't find a way to mend this rift that has grown more recently (moderates, social liberals/fiscal conservatives, religious right, Tea Party, etc.). I see a lot of nostalgia for and fixation on Ronald Reagan in recent years, who would also lose an election using the same platform as he did in the 80s, because the Republican party has changed. Likewise, this Libertarian thing seems good on paper, but awful in practice. I would consider myself to be more like them, but the people running as Libertarians seem to preach the exact opposite of what their party stands for.

I think that red/blue dichotomy is highly inaccurate. I've heard Detroit called "the most liberal" city because its voting record is blue. However, I don't think that makes it liberal. San Francisco is far more liberal than Detroit. A good example is that the black community typically votes Democrat, though isn't generally accepting of gay rights. The 2008 election in California was a good example of that. Obama managed to get a lot of the black community out to vote, but that also really helped Prop. 8 to pass. Just because parts of Oklahoma vote blue doesn't make them liberal.

Beyond this liberal/conservative thing, I would say Oklahoma is just generally stagnant as opposed to progressive. I hate when people say progressive is equal to liberal, because they are different. In general, I would say nowhere in Oklahoma is very progressive.



I'm inclined to agree, especially if you look at his posting history in other threads.

To the bold, quite correct.

[tkx7]

if you have a culture that cares more about promoting religion than education you are going to have some serious problems when it comes to critical thinking and progress

[Dale Cooper]

Originally Posted by tkx7

if you have a culture that cares more about promoting religion than education you are going to have some serious problems when it comes to critical thinking and progress

lol. "Critical thinking". The silly liberal buzzword. I laugh every time I see or hear it. Parrots.

[OKCtoDFW2016]

Originally Posted by tkx7

I'm pretty sure "johnspecial" is just a troll who is saying idiotic things to make OK look bad. He hasn't used any evidence in anything he's talked about on this forum.

Maybe so. There is some truth in what he says but it isn't as extreme or as black and white as he presents it. Oklahoma City is more family oriented, religious, and conservative than virtually any city its size in the nation, but I would say only a small minority are as extreme, rude, and as cold-hearted as he is. If he isn't a troll it wouldn't surprise me if he is a member of Windsor Hills Baptist Church, an OKC church that recently landed itself on the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of hate groups.

[okie1962]

Originally Posted by tkx7

I'm pretty sure "johnspecial" is just a troll who is saying idiotic things to make OK look bad. He hasn't used any evidence in anything he's talked about on this forum.

to be truthful I don't even think he lives in Oklahoma. Just saying...