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One of the most shockingly ignorant posts for a long while.
"Boomers" didn't set the home prices or the wages, the market does. The market has zero obligation to give you anything.
They greatest time of affordability and quality of life in the history of America was probably between 1945 and 1965 or so. That was when Boomers were born; they had zero influence since they were toddlers to teens. Their parents in LA and Orange County worked in good middle class jobs in aerospace, auto manufacturing, the military, oil & gas production and refining, film and movie production and nascent high tech. By the time Boomers came of age, many of these jobs and industries had gone away. My peers from high school (Class of '76) couldn't afford homes where they grew up. They had to move inland, even as far as Corona, Chino, Temecula, etc.
Several of my peers got very good jobs in the biggest boom industry in OC, construction. While many of us were toiling away to finish college, these guys were making up to $30 an hour, which in 1980 was a great, upper middle class wage. They began to lose their jobs shortly after that to illegal aliens from Mexico who'd do the job at half the wage.
Several other peers after graduating college went to work in commercial real estate at Grubb & Ellis, Coldwell Banker and the like. Which was great until the recession and they all lost their condos in Irvine and BMWs because they were spending money as fast as they made it.
As to those great jobs our parents had in the auto plants, aerospace plants and oil & gas production; they all went away very quickly as CA passed onerous regulations on them. Those jobs mostly left the state. The woke film and TV production, that is always the first to criticize "the rich" and "big business" for off shoring started moving their productions to Iowa, Kansas, Canada, Mexico, New Zealand..... anyplace that would give them tax breaks and lower labor costs.
The Boomers have had to live through three big recessions. Many of those who lost their jobs in the Great Recession of 2008 never found jobs again in their profession. I have peers who wound up working at Trader Joe's, Costco and Home Depot instead of the professional jobs they'd had before.
The most greedy and entitled generation this country has ever seen is the Gen Y Millennials that complains about how tough life is. They are the most coddled, most sheltered, most praised for nothing generation ever. So far. I fear Gen Z will be worse and Gen Alpha is all but lost, given the current drift of what is important to teach children to prepare them for the world.
Thinking Boomers had affordable housing in Orange County only serves to show how completely ignorant you are of economic reality that Boomers faced as they became young adults, ready to buy their first homes.
This "they decided" and "next generations didn’t deserve" talk is just crazy and ignorant. People don't set the value of their homes, the market sets the value of their homes. Three years my next door neighbor sold their home for $2.3 million. The person who bought it completely gutted it and remodeled with all the right buzz features that wealthy Gen Y'ers like. When they were done they asked $4.76 million. It didn't move for 18 months. It finally sold last month for $3.3 million because that was what it was worth said the market.
My mother also graduated in 1976 and in 1977 she could afford a 1-bed apartment in Boston while working part-time as a waitress and going to college. This is simply impossible today. Absolutely 100% impossible.
She and my father were both hourly workers (he an armored car guard and she a retail store cashier) and they were Boston HOMEOWNERS not long after I was born.
I defy you to make this scenario work in 2021. Your ignorance of how the millennial world looks is just stunning.
My mother also graduated in 1976 and in 1977 she could afford a 1-bed apartment in Boston while working part-time as a waitress and going to college. This is simply impossible today. Absolutely 100% impossible. She and my father were both hourly workers (he an armored car guard and she a retail store cashier) and they were Boston HOMEOWNERS not long after I was born. I defy you to make this scenario work in 2021. Your ignorance of how the millennial world looks is just stunning.
In case you hadn't noticed, this topic is about ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA.
NO ONE in 1976 could have afforded a one bedroom apartment alone with income solely working as a part time waiter or waitress. My peers who stayed in OC after graduation lived with 3 or more roommates to be able to afford to stay in the town where we grew up. No couple who were both hourly wage workers could afford to buy a home in our old neighborhoods. To this day you can still buy a 2 bedroom, 1 bath house in Boston for $300,000 or less. You can't in OC and certainly not in the areas we grew up in.
The Millennial world crisis is entirely self created. They want what has taken others 25 years to achieve RIGHT NOW and feel they are deserving of it and entitled to it.
My DW and I have had to make 5 different major moves (across county lines types moves) in order to grow in our careers. I didn't expect, even with both of us in professional jobs, to be able to afford to buy a house in Berkeley or San Francisco those first few years, which is how we wound up buying in Brentwood. Only mid career were we able to afford a home in our old neighborhoods.
Millennials seem to want what they want without paying the price others have had to make or making compromises in their wants.
In case you hadn't noticed, this topic is about ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA.
NO ONE in 1976 could have afforded a one bedroom apartment alone with income solely working as a part time waiter or waitress. My peers who stayed in OC after graduation lived with 3 or more roommates to be able to afford to stay in the town where we grew up. No couple who were both hourly wage workers could afford to buy a home in our old neighborhoods. To this day you can still buy a 2 bedroom, 1 bath house in Boston for $300,000 or less. You can't in OC and certainly not in the areas we grew up in.
The Millennial world crisis is entirely self created. They want what has taken others 25 years to achieve RIGHT NOW and feel they are deserving of it and entitled to it.
My DW and I have had to make 5 different major moves (across county lines types moves) in order to grow in our careers. I didn't expect, even with both of us in professional jobs, to be able to afford to buy a house in Berkeley or San Francisco those first few years, which is how we wound up buying in Brentwood. Only mid career were we able to afford a home in our old neighborhoods.
Millennials seem to want what they want without paying the price others have had to make or making compromises in their wants.
I think the Millennials and Gen Z today are just jealous with you of the very-low home prices they paid back then, BUT inflation was a lot smaller back then, and wages are lower too. They seem to forget that. Inflation today raises the cost of living yearly, while purchasing power remains near the same.
In case you hadn't noticed, this topic is about ORANGE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA.
NO ONE in 1976 could have afforded a one bedroom apartment alone with income solely working as a part time waiter or waitress. My peers who stayed in OC after graduation lived with 3 or more roommates to be able to afford to stay in the town where we grew up. No couple who were both hourly wage workers could afford to buy a home in our old neighborhoods. To this day you can still buy a 2 bedroom, 1 bath house in Boston for $300,000 or less. You can't in OC and certainly not in the areas we grew up in.
The Millennial world crisis is entirely self created. They want what has taken others 25 years to achieve RIGHT NOW and feel they are deserving of it and entitled to it.
My DW and I have had to make 5 different major moves (across county lines types moves) in order to grow in our careers. I didn't expect, even with both of us in professional jobs, to be able to afford to buy a house in Berkeley or San Francisco those first few years, which is how we wound up buying in Brentwood. Only mid career were we able to afford a home in our old neighborhoods.
Millennials seem to want what they want without paying the price others have had to make or making compromises in their wants.
I really just don't believe you.
First of all, show me where the 300k 2 bedroom 1 bath houses are in East Boston. I'll wait. Boston has pretty much always been more expensive than OC. Maybe you could find something in the price range you mentioned in the ghetto someplace or up in New Hampshire, but we didn't live there.
The point is that housing prices were lower and wages were higher comparatively NATIONWIDE back in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Millennials have not had this benefit and you know it.
Stop trying to make yourself out to be some kind of star-spangled success story from all your "hard work" (most Boomers have no idea what that's actually like, by the way, because they were rewarded handsomely for their work, while subsequent generations are stuck with the most stagnant job market and average wages since the Great Depression) when in reality, you just got lucky to be in the right country at the right time.
Your parents, the ones who fought WW2, left you an America that was almost perfect...but you took it all for yourselves and refuse to give anyone else a chance to live the life you had and the advantages you inherited through no effort of your own.
Both of my parents thought the same way you do until they lost their jobs in the recession and had to get out here and see how it really is today. They were shocked at the cost of living and the extremely low wages. I'm betting you're probably still in your bubble with absolutely no clue what life is like for someone today trying to make things work. Millennials aren't asking for BMW's and Porsches and 5 bedroom homes on the beach...we're asking for enough of a wage to afford a studio apartment and a compact sedan. For the majority of us, regardless of the housing market, this is not possible, even with multiple jobs. This was simply not so for your generation. If you were willing to work 40 hours a week in 1977, you could afford a roof almost anywhere in the country, and a full stomach.
And you don't care. You just turn your snout op and continue along your merry way, assuming you're right about everything because you're a generation of entitled, arrogant "gimmie gimmie gimmie" types that projects your worst qualities on to others so you don't have to admit you're actually wrong about anything.
Your parents, the ones who fought WW2, left you an America that was almost perfect...but you took it all for yourselves and refuse to give anyone else a chance to live the life you had and the advantages you inherited through no effort of your own.
Both of my parents thought the same way you do until they lost their jobs in the recession and had to get out here and see how it really is today. They were shocked at the cost of living and the extremely low wages. I'm betting you're probably still in your bubble with absolutely no clue what life is like for someone today trying to make things work. Millennials aren't asking for BMW's and Porsches and 5 bedroom homes on the beach...we're asking for enough of a wage to afford a studio apartment and a compact sedan. For the majority of us, regardless of the housing market, this is not possible, even with multiple jobs. This was simply not so for your generation. If you were willing to work 40 hours a week in 1977, you could afford a roof almost anywhere in the country, and a full stomach.
And you don't care. You just turn your snout op and continue along your merry way, assuming you're right about everything because you're a generation of entitled, arrogant "gimmie gimmie gimmie" types that projects your worst qualities on to others so you don't have to admit you're actually wrong about anything.
Chinese investors, today, are also involved in depleting the home supplies, and raising up home prices, not just Baby Boomers alone. And, it's really bad. Orange County in California is the worst place in the whole United States to buy homes at a fair price.
China was a poor country back then when Baby Boomers could afford the home with good supply, so zero demand 30 years ago. Now today is global competition buying up all the available homes, so higher demand, higher price, less supply. Look at Irvine today, most of the owners are Chinese investors, and they don't live inside them.
First of all, show me where the 300k 2 bedroom 1 bath houses are in East Boston. I'll wait. Boston has pretty much always been more expensive than OC. Maybe you could find something in the price range you mentioned in the ghetto someplace or up in New Hampshire, but we didn't live there.
Boston might have been more expensive than OC in 1776, but not in the 50 years. A quick glance at Zillow shows a 2 bed 1 bath in East Boston for $325k. The city of Boston in areas like Roxbury, Dorchester, Brookline, etc show LOTS of reasonably priced homes that you won't find except in the worst areas of Santa Ana and Anaheim. You can't come close in Irvine, south.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RG1981
The point is that housing prices were lower and wages were higher comparatively NATIONWIDE back in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Millennials have not had this benefit and you know it.
You don't know anything because you haven't lived through it. The 60's are vastly different from the 80's and regardless of how great home prices were and high wages were (they weren't) I was still pre-teen, so how would it benefit me. My first job in the mid-70's was at Disneyland making $1.85 an hour. Tell me how I was going to get my own apartment on that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RG1981
Stop trying to make yourself out to be some kind of star-spangled success story from all your "hard work" (most Boomers have no idea what that's actually like, by the way, because they were rewarded handsomely for their work, while subsequent generations are stuck with the most stagnant job market and average wages since the Great Depression) when in reality, you just got lucky to be in the right country at the right time.
My generation worked for everything it got. We didn't get trophies and gold ribbons for participation. The highest GPA you could get was a 4.0, none of this 4.7 GPA crap because you were in AP and Honors classes. All that got you was a gold seal on your diploma.
The job market isn't and wasn't stagnant, Obama could just never figure out how to to grow jobs and participation rates. He came into office with the LFPR at 66.7% and left with it at 62.8%. That number was steadily rising until the pandemic shutdown. As to wages, there was growth in the two years before the pandemic; the first real wage growth in decades. Somehow one side sees no correlation to unfettered access to illegal labor and wage stagnation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RG1981
Your parents, the ones who fought WW2, left you an America that was almost perfect...but you took it all for yourselves and refuse to give anyone else a chance to live the life you had and the advantages you inherited through no effort of your own.
My father and three uncles fought in Korea and Vietnam. I only had one uncle in WWII.
As to "an America that was almost perfect".... do you know ANYTHING about the 1960's, 70's and 80's? The civil rights movement, the SIX recessions from 1969 to 2001 prior to the Great Recession, lining up at gas stations every other day to get gas, hyper inflation, telecom collapse, the tech bubble burst, the housing bubble burst, S&L crisis? You really don't know anything, but who can blame you, such things aren't taught.
Our parents didn't give us anything. They didn't give us laptops, cellphones, cars, etc. Everything we got, we earned. Our parents told us it would build character, and you know what, they were right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RG1981
They were shocked at the cost of living and the extremely low wages. I'm betting you're probably still in your bubble with absolutely no clue what life is like for someone today trying to make things work.
The median household income in the U.S. is $69K. In OC the median household income is almost $90k. OC does not have low wages, let alone extremely low wages.
I have three sons who are Gen Y. They are all well educated because they worked hard in high school to get good grades to get into top universities. They worked hard at the top universities and got into good graduate schools. They worked hard in graduate school and got job offers from top companies in their chosen fields. Everything they have, they earned, just like their mother and I did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RG1981
And you don't care. You just turn your snout op and continue along your merry way, assuming you're right about everything because you're a generation of entitled, arrogant "gimmie gimmie gimmie" types that projects your worst qualities on to others so you don't have to admit you're actually wrong about anything.
Sorry, you are the whiner who complains "we aren't giving to you". "we aren't sharing". You are obviously ill-educated in many areas, including history and economics.
My first job in the mid-70's was at Disneyland making $1.85 an hour. Tell me how I was going to get my own apartment on that?
Assuming 1975 year, inflation adjusted today for 2021 is $9.11 minimum wage. California's minimum wage today is now $14, effective January 2021. I will vote 2021 minimum wage today better than 1975, no questions asked, and new young generation today are now better off than Baby Boomer, when they were young.
First of all, show me where the 300k 2 bedroom 1 bath houses are in East Boston. I'll wait. Boston has pretty much always been more expensive than OC. Maybe you could find something in the price range you mentioned in the ghetto someplace or up in New Hampshire, but we didn't live there.
The point is that housing prices were lower and wages were higher comparatively NATIONWIDE back in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Millennials have not had this benefit and you know it.
Stop trying to make yourself out to be some kind of star-spangled success story from all your "hard work" (most Boomers have no idea what that's actually like, by the way, because they were rewarded handsomely for their work, while subsequent generations are stuck with the most stagnant job market and average wages since the Great Depression) when in reality, you just got lucky to be in the right country at the right time.
Your parents, the ones who fought WW2, left you an America that was almost perfect...but you took it all for yourselves and refuse to give anyone else a chance to live the life you had and the advantages you inherited through no effort of your own.
Both of my parents thought the same way you do until they lost their jobs in the recession and had to get out here and see how it really is today. They were shocked at the cost of living and the extremely low wages. I'm betting you're probably still in your bubble with absolutely no clue what life is like for someone today trying to make things work. Millennials aren't asking for BMW's and Porsches and 5 bedroom homes on the beach...we're asking for enough of a wage to afford a studio apartment and a compact sedan. For the majority of us, regardless of the housing market, this is not possible, even with multiple jobs. This was simply not so for your generation. If you were willing to work 40 hours a week in 1977, you could afford a roof almost anywhere in the country, and a full stomach.
And you don't care. You just turn your snout op and continue along your merry way, assuming you're right about everything because you're a generation of entitled, arrogant "gimmie gimmie gimmie" types that projects your worst qualities on to others so you don't have to admit you're actually wrong about anything.
I'll speak from personal experience and explain why I don't feel sorry for Millennials. I was born in the 70's, which would make me Generation X. When I graduated high school in the mid 90's, I worked various jobs (house painting, UPS, even worked as an animator), did a little bit of college at night and had lived in San Francisco all of my life. I saved a lot of money, but still went out and had fun. No backpacking trips across Europe, didn't fly anywhere...maybe drove to Los Angeles a couple of times
I watched the average home price in my parents neighborhood go from $200,000 in 1998, to $350,000 in 2000. I had to jump in the market, but couldn't save fast enough. I finally found something about 90 minutes North of San Francisco for $250,000. I was making $40,000 a year. I put 10% down and had an 8% interest rate on my loan. I was paying like $1700 a month for $225,000 loan. Today $1700 a month gets you almost $400,000 in financing. 1 week after buying the house I got laid off from my job due to the dot com crash. Had to go back to painting houses.
The house was a piece of junk (2 beds, 1 bath 800 sq. feet.), everyone said to tear it down, but I couldn't afford to do that. I spent the next 3 months in my new home, in the middle of winter (20 degrees at night) with no electricity, working in the dark with a flashlight. I took showers in an old black, dirty tub. I had rain leaks, weird tree's growing onto the house and mostly cracked and broken windows. It was hell. I hated it, but I was glad I did it. Remodeled the whole house, sold it for $400,000 in 2003 and bought a house in Oakland for $489,000 in 2004. I only made $44,000 that year. I had a payment of $1564 per month on a $364,000 mortgage.
I had a little cash and bought a second home in the Central Valley to fix up and sell. I bit off more than I could chew and was stuck with a home that needed a ton of work. The housing market crashed and I basically lived hand to mouth, barely hanging on to the home that I lived in and the one that I was fixing up.
I eventually fixed it and rented out the second home in 2008. I had a mountain of debt and spent the next 6 years paying back about $80,000 in 2nd loans and credit card debt...didn't foreclose. I eventually was able to afford to go back to College (part-time). By the time I graduated in 2012, I was married, had 2 kids and decent job prospects. Started working in Silicon Valley making real money, had more kids and finally sold that second house that nearly killed me last year...of course I had to fix it all over again by myself because the tenants trashed it.
Now I make good money, have no mortgages and am able to take my family on vacations. My 20's and early 30's were not spent going out to restaurants, going on vacations, using college as an excuse to not work much and complaining about how hard things are. I only ever went to night school and have always worked full-time since I finished high school. I see guys who I knew when I was younger, who I was jealous of because they were partying every weekend, still renting in their 40's.
Buying was expensive for me, but I found opportunity, as long as I was willing to put in the work and go through all of the stress. When I sold my first house, I was free to move to another state and buy a house for cash, but I wanted to stay in California. My decision, my consequences. It's expensive today, but there are opportunities. 20 years ago, everyone my age was looking for a fixer to buy because they didn't have money for a nice house. Real Estate Agents who I talk to today say all the Millennial buyers want to move into a house that's all fixed and ready to go.
My advice is to don't be afraid of work and don't be afraid to get dirty and buy a piece of junk for your first house. You'll learn a lot about fixing homes, you'll learn a lot about your self and you'll earn self respect.
Last edited by mr_california; 05-04-2021 at 12:29 AM..
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
10,351 posts, read 8,576,900 times
Reputation: 16698
Quote:
Originally Posted by RG1981
Reading through this thread and wow...a lot of strong opinions. I personally blame Boomers for most of this. They’re the ones who own the homes and set the wages right now for the most part. They enjoyed the greatest time of affordability and quality of life in the history of America between the 60’s-80’s and then turn around and REFUSE to pass those same benefits on to the next generation.
Boomers are the most greedy and entitled generation this country has ever seen, contrary to popular opinion. They had the perfect combination of affordable housing and good-paying jobs, but once they got established they decided that the next generations didn’t deserve those benefits and that their houses are a worth a million dollars and they won’t raise wages so anyone else can afford to live like they got to.
Granted there are other factors at play here, mostly banks having all their money in real estate now, but still, the greed of the Boomer generation is the main reason millennials and Gen Z can’t get a grip.
Compared to younger people today, I can’t say boomers are anymore entitled than they are.
It must be horrible being miserable everyday blaming others for not being in a position you want to be.
Why don’t you just look at yourself.
Another young person here on cd a while back blamed the cost of housing on boomers and how cheap it was for them compared to now.
I went back and found a house I bought back in the late 80s in California. It had gone up, but the monthly payments on that house were lower than what I had to pay back in the days of 18% interest on loans. Plus that’s comparing with today’s dollars not factored in.
You can blame and cry all you want. You’re still in the same position and always will be.
Boston might have been more expensive than OC in 1776, but not in the 50 years. A quick glance at Zillow shows a 2 bed 1 bath in East Boston for $325k. The city of Boston in areas like Roxbury, Dorchester, Brookline, etc show LOTS of reasonably priced homes that you won't find except in the worst areas of Santa Ana and Anaheim. You can't come close in Irvine, south.
LOL Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. Roxbury and Dorchester and about 500x worse than Santa Ana. Those are the slums.
If you're looking at condos/apartments, MAYBE you'll find something 325k in a crummy area of Eastie. But you won't find any actual houses that price. Not even close. Probably nothing under 600k tbh.
And Brookline is one of the most expensive parts of the entire country. I can't imagine a single family home in Brookline goes for under a million dollars.
Also you have to look at the what you're getting in Boston vs. OC. An 800 sq. ft. condo in a nice area of Boston is comparable to the price of a 3 bd house in Orange County.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
My generation worked for everything it got. We didn't get trophies and gold ribbons for participation. The highest GPA you could get was a 4.0, none of this 4.7 GPA crap because you were in AP and Honors classes. All that got you was a gold seal on your diploma.
LOL here we are again with the "we worked SOOO hard!" You didn't. You didn't work any harder than any generation before or after you, the difference is that you were REWARDED for your work. You got more for it, so it feels like you worked harder. But the facts don't care about your feelings.
Millennials work longer hours for less pay and in most cases, we start off our careers working for free, as unpaid internships and such are the norm.
And let's talk competition. Just in sheer numbers we have hurdles your generation couldn't even imagine.
My father lived in a very densely populated urban area and his graduating class in 1969 consisted of ~250 people. When I finished HS, we were living in a sparsely populated rural area and my graduating class consisted of 765. That's a lot more competition for jobs. That competition for jobs allows employers to be more choosy, thereby driving wages down. Way down.
There are thousands of qualified candidates for every crummy, entry-level position. All of whose headhunting is done online.
Your generation had the benefit of person-to-person contact. You could go to somebody's office, shake their hand, and build a rapport. We don't have that benefit. We have auto-rejection filters that without certain terms on your resume and cover letter you don't even get a response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
As to "an America that was almost perfect".... do you know ANYTHING about the 1960's, 70's and 80's? The civil rights movement, the SIX recessions from 1969 to 2001 prior to the Great Recession, lining up at gas stations every other day to get gas, hyper inflation, telecom collapse, the tech bubble burst, the housing bubble burst, S&L crisis? You really don't know anything, but who can blame you, such things aren't taught.
If such things aren't taught it's because your generation isn't teaching them. You're the ones running the schools.
And even if the world was blowing up entirely during that time, it doesn't change the fact that you had it a lot easier throughout the entire thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Our parents didn't give us anything. They didn't give us laptops, cellphones, cars, etc. Everything we got, we earned. Our parents told us it would build character, and you know what, they were right.
Again with your inflated ego. Yea, everything you got you earned...buy by "earn" you mean you worked 40 hours a week and could therefore afford.
That's just not true for us. Most of us could work 50+ hours a week at most jobs and probably not afford to live in a studio apartment anywhere in the entire United States.
You cannot tell me that your generation faced a similar challenge in earning a living. You just can't. Because it's not true and you know it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Everything they have, they earned, just like their mother and I did.
Ego, ego, ego. You are such an arrogant person. You're really not doing a good job of disproving the claim that you're part of a very self-centered, narcissistic, "self-esteem" generation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Sorry, you are the whiner who complains "we aren't giving to you". "we aren't sharing". You are obviously ill-educated in many areas, including history and economics.
The facts are the facts. You're the one who refuses to accept the fact that you ruined this country for subsequent generations.
You are entirely incapable of acknowledging any of the difficulties facing our generation and think yours was perfect. This is picture-perfect egocentrism and entitlement, just like I've been saying from the beginning.
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