Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Requiring the wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes is not taking away all their money.
Those that ‘give the poor their jobs’ have had their taxes reduced consistently over the last few decades, but after every new tax reduction, instead of creating jobs, they just keep squirreling their money away.
It’s funny that you would bring up Marx, as conservatives are always making the false analogy between communist and democratic policies.
It’s funny because it’s been conservative Republican tax policies that have managed to re-distribute our nation’s wealth from the middle class to the wealthy.
I beg your pardon, but when people insist the rich pay their fair share, they conveniently neglect to pay attention to percentages. Since the rich pay a greater percentage, they are actually paying more than their "fair share". America used to be the land of opportunities. Too bad there wasn't a disclaimer about success and wealth being penalized...
Btw, how is wealth re-distributed to the rich? Most government assistance programs are for the poor and middle class--which are funded by taxes.
My apologies, but after reading through this thread I became extremely frustrated with the comments slamming conservatives and the wealthy.
As for the original thread.. Central Oregon is supposed to be more conservative, but it's all subjective. As for family-friendly, it may be a bit better. People seem to fall into one of several groups: laid-back hippies, small-town cowboys, outdoor enthusiasts, or emo (which fortunately seems to be limited to the high school population). All very nice people, especially if hot topics are avoided.
Tacoma, sorry about my mini rant in your thread. Good luck with your search!
Just about anything outside the Willamette Valley...
........& this, Brenda's first line of the first response to the OP's question, remains perfect in my estimation. Exclude the Willamette Valley & essentially the remainder of Oregon is "red", not "blue" map-wise.
I beg your pardon, but when people insist the rich pay their fair share, they conveniently neglect to pay attention to percentages. Since the rich pay a greater percentage, they are actually paying more than their "fair share". America used to be the land of opportunities. Too bad there wasn't a disclaimer about success and wealth being penalized...
In 1950 the top income tax rate was 91 percent, in 1964 it was reduced to 77 percent, in 1982 it was again reduced to 50 percent, by 1993 it had shrunk down to 39.6 and thanks to the last Republican administration, by 2003 it had been cut to 35 percent. There may be a word that describes this, but it sure isn’t ‘penalized’.
But wait there’s more! They’re not satisfied yet, in order to pay for another tax cut from 35 to 25 percent, the Republicans are willing to throw our seniors under the insurance bus. The wealthy have been given tax break after tax break over the last 60 years. Of course you wouldn’t know that given their constant whining about having to give back to the country that provides them the infrastructure and workers needed to succeed.
Contrary to the common conservative ‘wisdom’, America has some of the lowest corporate tax rates in the western civilized world and don’t let them slam our country, we’re still the land of opportunity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriM9
...Btw, how is wealth re-distributed to the rich? Most government assistance programs are for the poor and middle class--which are funded by taxes...
Are you not aware that our nation’s middle-class incomes have actually declined in the last decade at the same time our nation’s top earners have soared? For example our corporate CEO’s income has skyrocketed from approx 12 times the average workers salary in 1940, to 45 times in 1970 and now it’s an obscene 400 to 500 times the average workers salary. If you don’t believe that our tax structure plays a major part in this you’re mistaken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriM9
...Most government assistance programs are for the poor and middle class--which are funded by taxes...
Have you ever heard of the term ‘corporate welfare”? The latest example of this was the Republicans refusing to cut government subsidies to the oil industry while they’re making record-breaking profits and everyone else is struggling. Does anyone doubt the truth of that age old saying; “He Who Has the Gold Makes the Rules”?
As I mentioned in another thread, through the power of their wealth and lobbyists the rich wage war on the poor and middle class 24/7. Funny though, it’s only when someone points that out, you’ll hear that familiar shriek coming from conservatives, Class Warfare!
First, to answer the OP's question: I only just moved to Oregon, but I would say that many towns outside of Eugene, Bend, Portland, Ashland and Corvallis are fairly conservative. But even the most conservative towns in Oregon don't feel very conservative to me after spending time in the South. I guess it all depends on perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dual Citizen CA-OR
In 1950 the top income tax rate was 91 percent, in 1964 it was reduced to 77 percent, in 1982 it was again reduced to 50 percent, by 1993 it had shrunk down to 39.6 and thanks to the last Republican administration, by 2003 it had been cut to 35 percent. There may be a word that describes this, but it sure isn’t ‘penalized’.
But wait there’s more! They’re not satisfied yet, in order to pay for another tax cut from 35 to 25 percent, the Republicans are willing to throw our seniors under the insurance bus. The wealthy have been given tax break after tax break over the last 60 years. Of course you wouldn’t know that given their constant whining about having to give back to the country that provides them the infrastructure and workers needed to succeed.
Contrary to the common conservative ‘wisdom’, America has some of the lowest corporate tax rates in the western civilized world and don’t let them slam our country, we’re still the land of opportunity.
Are you not aware that our nation’s middle-class incomes have actually declined in the last decade at the same time our nation’s top earners have soared? For example our corporate CEO’s income has skyrocketed from approx 12 times the average workers salary in 1940, to 45 times in 1970 and now it’s an obscene 400 to 500 times the average workers salary. If you don’t believe that our tax structure plays a major part in this you’re mistaken.
Have you ever heard of the term ‘corporate welfare”? The latest example of this was the Republicans refusing to cut government subsidies to the oil industry while they’re making record-breaking profits and everyone else is struggling. Does anyone doubt the truth of that age old saying; “He Who Has the Gold Makes the Rules”?
As I mentioned in another thread, through the power of their wealth and lobbyists the rich wage war on the poor and middle class 24/7. Funny though, it’s only when someone points that out, you’ll hear that familiar shriek coming from conservatives, Class Warfare!
Thanks Dual Citizen. I was a little baffled, too. If anything, conservatives should be MORE upset over the tax structure in a philosophical sense.
---
LoriM9: So your premise is this:
$1,000,000 x .15 = $150,000
$35,000 x .40 = $14,000
(These numbers are a fabrication used to illustrate a point, not fact)
$150,000 > $14,000. Therefor the $1,000,000 earner pays more percentage-ly in taxes than that of the $35,000 earner?
If this was your assertion, your argument is greatly flawed. If not, I am sorry for mangling your logic.
---
I can tell you all first hand that the rich do not pay their fair share in taxes. Over the last 4 decades my family's wealth has risen at an amazing rate due to, in part, increased tax breaks and incentives to "invest." This does not discredit savvy investment practices and frugality, of which we undoubtably should/have been rewarded, but give.me.a.break.
I have two roommates who make about $30,000 a year. I have seen their tax returns. Percentage-ly, I pay FAR less to the state and fed based on my annual income and personal wealth.
There is a great book titled, "What's the Matter with Kansas?", that argues that often times we vote against our economic interests.
Example: Rural, jobless midwestern/southern towns vote for the GOP who incentives the movement of their factory jobs oversees and extend corporate welfare. Conversely, urbanites in the upper class vote for democrats who attempt to raise their taxes and destroy their nest egg. An interesting premise.
Last edited by kapetrich; 06-21-2011 at 10:32 AM..
I have nearly a Bachelors degree (I never had the opportunity to go to college like most of my liberal rich friends in high school). I enlisted in the Navy, got out after 4 years, and have spent the last 7 improving my life. Almost done with my Bachelors degree, I'm in a pretty senior position in the Fed Govt. and I'm center-right. My parents passed away right after I graduated High School leaving me with nothing.
I'm not uneducated nor unintelligent. I just don't think that it's personally my responsibility to pay for everyone else's problems. No one paid for me to go to college, I earned my own money and paid my own way. No one held my hand when I went into the Navy, I did that on my own.
Yes, the tax problem in our country is terrible. Get rid of the corporate loopholes and make the tax fair for everyone. Fair is a relative term, but how does it make sense that with some of the tax laws people are proposing that a family making 250k a year, makes less than a family making 240k?
When every single house that a family of 4 or 5 needs to live in, costs 300k+, how is a family supposed to pay for it, without making an absurdly large salary, while subsidizing everyone else's fiscal problems?
While I'm terribly excited to move to Oregon, I sure as hope I don't have to deal with some of the disillusioned people in this post.
My whole point is this, due to some of the great programs we've enacted in this fine country, everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) has the opportunity to excel, no matter where you came from. I came from a backwoods, po-dunk town in Oregon with 5k people. Look at where I'm at now. No one paid my way.
On the same token, if you don't help people help themselves, and they fail, then you have to look at yourself when crime rates, drug use, homlessness, and poverty rates go up all around.
On the same token, if you don't help people help themselves, and they fail, then you have to look at yourself when crime rates, drug use, homlessness, and poverty rates go up all around.
Isn't that called culling the herd? Not everyone succeeds life. Some people are destined to work at McDonald's because that's the extent of their drive.
I don't care about the people destined to work at McDonald's or Walmart all their lives. They've reached their pinnacle and there is little that can be done to improve that. They are important cogs in our society, and if they're happy, they're good to go.
I care about helping the people who grow up in extreme poverty and get a poor education, that then turn to gangs or drugs and cause more harm to society in general through crime. There are always going to be some people who turn to crime, that is human nature. Here is a chart from The Prison Scholar Fund - The Benefits of Education
Recidivism Rates:
State Generally With Degree
Alabama 35% 1%
Maryland 46% 0%
New York 45% 26%
Texas 36% 10%
Wouldn't it be better for society in general if we had caught these people ahead of time, educated them and gotten them into productive society, paying taxes just like everyone else? Adding to the system instead of subtracting from it?
I can identify the exact moment the system failed me, due to an incompetent tenured teacher in grade school. My grades went from high A's with the occasional B to D's and F's across the board in the space of a single semester. This almost immediately led to rounds of depression, drastic behavioral issues, and suicidal thoughts. If that teacher had given me an extra ten minutes to explain the concepts I wasn't understanding, I'm sure that my life would be a lot different. I was by far not the only one in that school with this problem, yet that teacher only retired a few years ago.
I see that point in time as the defining point in who I am today. That is my biggest regret in life and I would do anything to go back, and help my much younger self through that ten minutes.
If you add extreme poverty to hopelessness in improving your own situation, where do you think people are going to turn too? Crime, drugs, gangs - all are viable options when you have nothing to lose. Until people can truly understand that, and fix the problem from the bottom up, it's only going to self propagate. Any sane person can not expect everyone to have the same drive to succeed as everyone else.
But we can all join in helping those who do need help, to gain a part of the drive needed to succeed to the best of their abilities. We can at least help people get to the point that they have skills that are useful to employers.
Contrary to the common conservative ‘wisdom’, America has some of the lowest corporate tax rates in the western civilized world and don’t let them slam our country, we’re still the land of opportunity.
This statement is so patently false and easily disprovable that you can hear the smacking thunder of the uninformed.
Corporate tax rate by nation:
- Japan 39.54% (soon to be lowered below 35%)
- USA 39.2%
- France 34.3%
- Belgium 33.9%
... Australia 30%
- Mexico 30%
- Canada 30%
- UK 28%
- Norway 28%
Sweden 26.3%
----
- South Korea 24.5%
....
Switzerland 21.7%
Czech Republic 19.7%
What makes you think that the US government is entitled to money earned by corporations, who produce US jobs and support the retirements of US tax holders? I'm curious where this sense of entitlement comes from. Why not just push the rate to 100% and drive the corporations out of the country with that mentality? Or perhaps they'll just relocate to South Korea and shave nearly 50% off their corporate rate.
Of course, what you completely miss is that corporations don't pay taxes. They pass on expenses or their shareholders lose out on profits. Either way, increasing taxes on corporations is bad for consumers and investors (what, you have a 401k, too?). What truly raises revenue is income tax paid by individual working for corporations. You have to be careful with income taxes, as they also hit small businesses, which are the lifeblood of an economy.
What isn't fair is when you have tax breaks given to certain politically favorable corporations--specifically those in TARP. Halliburton (gasp!). GE, GM, Chrysler under President Obama. These corporations should not receive competitive benefits over others. Bring in a flat tax and drop the rate of corporate taxation, say I. Businesses would flood to the US if that were done and regulations were decreased.
I feel like on the whole, it's a lost cause espousing these values in Oregon. It's a beatiful state, and that's what brings people. But it's oppressive towards businesses, and wages will remain depressed and expenses high.
There are cities in Oregon with more traditional values like the OP referred to. They're weaker than in other parts in the country, specifically weaker than many other parts of the Moutain West. Rates of religious observance are lower than anywhere but Washington state. Speaking as someone who grew up working in agriculture and still does to a degree, you don't see too many liberals in that walk of life.
Look to places where people still make a living off of the land, where hard work is a necessity--more central and western Oregon outside of the Valley.
This statement is so patently false and easily disprovable that you can hear the smacking thunder of the uninformed.
Corporate tax rate by nation:
- Japan 39.54% (soon to be lowered below 35%)
- USA 39.2%
- France 34.3%
- Belgium 33.9%
... Australia 30%
- Mexico 30%
- Canada 30%
- UK 28%
- Norway 28%
Sweden 26.3%
----
- South Korea 24.5%
....
Switzerland 21.7%
Czech Republic 19.7%
What makes you think that the US government is entitled to money earned by corporations, who produce US jobs and support the retirements of US tax holders?
What makes you think US corporations actually PAY that rate, except for the small corporations which can't afford good enough attorneys and tax accountants? The actual, as-paid corporate tax rate is actually about half of that, and it does not include income shielded in other countries.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
