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The reason for the move, however, is that the Chinese government is trying to increase the standards of living for their citizens and thus Chinese labor rates are rising. So Apple is moving to India to exploit an even cheaper workforce.
I think it has more to do with having a more stable workforce considering the political problems with China.
The reason for the move, however, is that the Chinese government is trying to increase the standards of living for their citizens and thus Chinese labor rates are rising. So Apple is moving to India to exploit an even cheaper workforce.
Yes, Western companies have been manufacturing in China for 30 years now. You can still get things done more cheaply in China, but this isn't like the early days anymore. Wages have risen quite a bit over time.
Furthermore, it's no longer just outside companies manufacturing there. Indigenous Chinese companies have been developing in traditional lines of business as well as those that rely heavily on R&D and innovation. I say this a lot, because it's true - if you're in the technology business, especially when a major shift is underway, it's not an advantage to have a 100-year head start - that's 100 years of inertia, complacency, stale skills in older staff, a "because that's how we've always done it" mentality, fear of risks, of change, etc, etc, etc. There are some older staffers who are right up to date in their knowledge and skills, who are energetic, who don't mind risk, who embrace change - and those people are the exception, not the rule.
Yes. I mean, I have no doubt that Ford, GM and Stellantis like these restrictions, so I am not gnashing teeth. I still think that this shouldn't be done indefinitely though. Protecting American companies basically allows them to remain non-competitive - which isn't even good for them over the long haul; plus for American consumers, they don't get the benefits of such competition. So such measures should be of limited scope and duration, if you need to use them, in my opinion.
You see it as protecting American companies, I see it as creating an even playing field. I am all for tariffs for imported items. Then again, I like the standard of living this country has, and don't want to see it reduced to that of many of the low cost countries we compete against.
I know a fair number of people here are just saying China -> bad. My own view is more nuanced than that. Yes, I've read news stories about corruption in government or industry, about not respecting western IP, about severe quality issues in products. I read the news too.
However, China is a big country and I don't think every Chinese person, nor every Chinese company, is bad. I work in research informatics in a biotechnology company, and we have many of our own staff scientists who were born in China (or Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, India, etc)... and I am fine with them - just as good as any other. Furthermore, we use the research services of several Chinese CROs (contract research organizations) that are true Chinese companies, located in China, and in my experience, those companies we've worked with have been easy to work with and they're doing quality work - that's why we're still using them.
And I already mentioned that Berkshire Hathaway, who do their due diligence - I am sure far more than anyone posting here including me - and they invested heavily in BYD.
You want to be aware of potential risks, but you don't want to be intellectually lazy, and just label everything in a country of 1.4 billion people as bad. That's easy, but it's not very thoughtful or accurate.
I know a fair number of people here are just saying China -> bad. My own view is more nuanced than that. Yes, I've read news stories about corruption in government or industry, about not respecting western IP, about severe quality issues in products. I read the news too.
However, China is a big country and I don't think every Chinese person, nor every Chinese company, is bad. I work in research informatics in a biotechnology company, and we have many of our own staff scientists who were born in China (or Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, India, etc)... and I am fine with them - just as good as any other. Furthermore, we use the research services of several Chinese CROs (contract research organizations) that are true Chinese companies, located in China, and in my experience, those companies we've worked with have been easy to work with and they're doing quality work - that's why we're still using them.
And I already mentioned that Berkshire Hathaway, who do their due diligence - I am sure far more than anyone posting here including me - and they invested heavily in BYD.
You want to be aware of potential risks, but you don't want to be intellectually lazy, and just label everything in a country of 1.4 billion people as bad. That's easy, but it's not very thoughtful or accurate.
Every dollar spent on a chinese product benefits the ccp and the pla - THAT is the bottom line...
Here is a recent comparison review by some British auto journalists of the BYD Seal versus the Tesla Model 3 Highland - the latest and greatest from the EV world's standard-bearer. I knew that BYD is legit, but I was nonetheless surprised to see that both of them, on balance, prefer the Seal. Tesla should be very nervous... very nervous.
Every dollar spent on a chinese product benefits the ccp and the pla - THAT is the bottom line...
That is a different argument. I have heard that BYDs are selling slowly in Europe, and there is speculation that it's essentially a boycott or protest against the Chinese government's support for the Russian war on Ukraine. I can understand that, and it's quite different than simply asserting that the car can't be any good, because it came out of China.
Whether you buy Chinese cars or not, majority of your goods are made in China or derived from there. Steel, plastics, and rubber materials. More and more food from China is shipped here since so many Americans now enjoy Asian cuisine and majority of the ingredients like sauces, dry noodles, etc are shipped from China.
The problem with making anything in the US is too much regulation and restrictions even for cheap labor.
In any Chinese factory, someone can simply walk up and fill a form and get checked out for employment then you can start working the same day and get paid at the end of the day. Often lunch is provided and even housing for many migrant chinese workers at Foxconn factories.
How can the US compete with that? When we have regulations for every job and it's difficult for a company to hire and fire.
Hire someone? Background checks, proper working papers then your income has to be reported to the IRS. In China these factories you get paid in cash no IRS no income taxes.
We should be blaming the government here for making business too difficult and with 15 million illegals entering this country, there's no job that can take in illegals without proper documentation.
I know a fair number of people here are just saying China -> bad. My own view is more nuanced than that. Yes, I've read news stories about corruption in government or industry, about not respecting western IP, about severe quality issues in products. I read the news too.
However, China is a big country and I don't think every Chinese person, nor every Chinese company, is bad. I work in research informatics in a biotechnology company, and we have many of our own staff scientists who were born in China (or Taiwan, South Korea, Japan, India, etc)... and I am fine with them - just as good as any other. Furthermore, we use the research services of several Chinese CROs (contract research organizations) that are true Chinese companies, located in China, and in my experience, those companies we've worked with have been easy to work with and they're doing quality work - that's why we're still using them.
And I already mentioned that Berkshire Hathaway, who do their due diligence - I am sure far more than anyone posting here including me - and they invested heavily in BYD.
You want to be aware of potential risks, but you don't want to be intellectually lazy, and just label everything in a country of 1.4 billion people as bad. That's easy, but it's not very thoughtful or accurate.
Do you think that R&D your company is paying for isn't being handed over to the Chinese Communists to then turn around and use against you in the market? You're paying them to build the knife they will use to cut your throat.
The same is true of any mobile phone. At least Apple is moving their assembly of iPhones to India.
True, good point.
I think a lot of places are looking to India as China has gotten more expensive and has new laws around espionage etc. that are apparently chilling foreign activity.
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