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I'm confused by your response because the letter says NOTHING whatsoever about abuse.
The letter is appropriately asking that the school intervene and teach David skills to manage his behavior, which will in turn help protect Lisalan's child too.
I don't understand why you have a problem with that. The word 'intervention' is used in an educational setting for many things, helping with reading, helping behavior, etc.
Intervention, as I have heard it used, usually refers to academic matters. It is also used by educators WHO KNOW THE CHILD, not some parent who only knows what her 7 year old tells her.
It is quite simply not the OP's place to ask the school to do anything on behalf of this child. She does not have enough information to know what he needs. It is extremely arrogant to presume that a child she hardly knows needs anything. It's not her place to suggest that he needs anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes
While the school pursues teaching these skills to David, the professionals working closely with him will have an opportunity to understand David better.
If the school district does this right, David will be evaluated by the education psychologist and provided counseling on behavior by the school social worker.
Those are two very well trained professional who might identify abuse without being asked---just like you could identify abuse in the course of your day.
The OP has no knowledge that he needs these evaluations. He has a classroom teacher. He has specials teachers. Those are the people who know the child enough to suggest that he needs additional services. The OP is not the appropriate person to ask for those services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes
For the record, this is what intervention means in education.
*Basics of Special Education: General Education Interventions (http://resources.sai-iowa.org/specialed/interventions.html - broken link)
I'm not sure why you've never heard of 'intervention' in the education setting.
The letter is asking for an intervention concerning David's behavior, not abuse. The word intervention is appropriate. The letter is appropriate.
Intervention is not the word used where I have worked. In the schools where I worked in the word intervention was used differently. At any rate the lingo is hardly the issue here. The issue is that the OP has no way to know whether this child needs to be seen by a psychologist. For all we know he already has been seen.
At any rate the problem I have here is that the OP would be stepping into something that she is not qualified to evaluate. She does not know this child. She does not know what he needs. The school district would be quite wrong (IMO) to undertake ANY evaluation of a child based on the say so of another parent who does not have any direct knowledge of the child's daily life.
I have to ask you, would you be ok with an adult who hardly knows you and your child suggesting that your child be tested by the school district for ANYTHING? Would you be OK with another parent suggesting that your child needed to be seen by a psychologist if the only thing that parent knew was that the kid was violent?
People do need to be compassionate to others and any true abuse should be reported to the appropriate authorities. However, based on what the OP has written here she has no reason to suspect anything other than this child is exhibiting violence. THATS IT. She has no other evidence that he is unstable, needs a psychologist, or anything else. The teachers may have more information than the OP.
Not every violent kid has suffered from abuse. Some are mentally ill. And some are just brats.
Intervention, as I have heard it used, usually refers to academic matters.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
Intervention is not the word used where I have worked. In the schools where I worked in the word intervention was used differently.
Today, intervention is used in education to address all sorts of issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
At any rate the lingo is hardly the issue here. The issue is that the OP has no way to know whether this child needs to be seen by a psychologist. For all we know he already has been seen.
The letter merely asks that all resources be used that are available. That leaves it up to the school district.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
At any rate the problem I have here is that the OP would be stepping into something that she is not qualified to evaluate.
She's mearly asking them to evaluate BECAUSE her son has been physically injured by this child.
Calling the police is stepping in. Telling the school to expell him is stepping in.
It blows my mind that you think calling the police or asking the school to expel is appropriate but asking the school to provide David will skills to control his anger is not appropriate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
he school district would be quite wrong (IMO) to undertake ANY evaluation of a child based on the say so of another parent who does not have any direct knowledge of the child's daily life.
Districs often don't use the resources avaialble because they are expensive resources. But if a district fears a lawsuit, the district might use resources that it should have been using all along. The district will not use resources just because a parent asks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
I have to ask you, would you be ok with an adult who hardly knows you and your child suggesting that your child be tested by the school district for ANYTHING? Would you be OK with another parent suggesting that your child needed to be seen by a psychologist if the only thing that parent knew was that the kid was violent?
A would not be offended if another parent asked that my son be taught skills to control his anger if my son had physically injured my son and other children.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
People do need to be compassionate to others and any true abuse should be reported to the appropriate authorities. However, based on what the OP has written here she has no reason to suspect anything other than this child is exhibiting violence. THATS IT. She has no other evidence that he is unstable, needs a psychologist, or anything else. The teachers may have more information than the OP.
Not every violent kid has suffered from abuse. Some are mentally ill. And some are just brats.
Quit focusing on abuse. The letter says nothing about abuse.
Lisalan knows her son has been injured. Lisalan has every right to ask the district to use all resources available to ensure her son is not injured again.
In light of the incidents between David and my son and other children, I am sure that the school realizes that David's behavior is extremely concerning. In order for my son and all the children in the school to be safe, I request that David be evaluted for more intervention than he is currently being given at school. I would like all possible resources to be used to insure that David's behavior is addressed. Punishment is appropriate, but something more is needed in order to help David learn how to resolve conflicts without violence.
Sincerely,
-------------------
Maybe it would be a good idea to refer to David as him or he a bit more often. Might humanize him a little. After reading this whole thread he's (I mean David's) taken on some kind of Lifetime Movie Title status in my head, so many times has he (David) been mentioned by name. Even God is referred to as He or Him sometimes.
That's all I have as I think every side of this debate has merit.
She's mearly asking them to evaluate BECAUSE her son has been physically injured by this child.
It doesn't matter. It's not her place to ask him to be evaluated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes
Calling the police is stepping in. Telling the school to expell him is stepping in.
It blows my mind that you think calling the police or asking the school to expel is appropriate but asking the school to provide David will skills to control his anger is not appropriate.
The OP has reason to believe the law has been broken. She has knowledge of this. It is perfectly appropriate to ask that the law be enforced. It is not appropriate for her to ask for any sort of evaluation for this child because she has no idea whether he needs an evaluation.
School districts have matrices that they use to enforce consequences on students who do not adhere to the code of conduct. It is appropriate to ask that they school's own rules be enforced. Again-the OP has enough knowledge to know that the school's code of conduct has been violated. I don't think a parent can ask for a child to be expelled. Expulsion is usually the decision of an administrator. It's a completely different thing to ask for a psychological evaluation of a child the OP hardly knows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes
Districs often don't use the resources avaialble because they are expensive resources. But if a district fears a lawsuit, the district might use resources that it should have been using all along. The district will not use resources just because a parent asks.
That doesn't make it appropriate for another parent to ask. The OP is not qualified to suggest the child needs an evaluation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes
Quit focusing on abuse. The letter says nothing about abuse.
Lisalan knows her son has been injured. Lisalan has every right to ask the district to use all resources available to ensure her son is not injured again.
You are the one who is insistent that the OP write this letter to help this kid. The reason you give is that many bullies have been abused and we are all obligated to help kids who have been abused. I do not think that the OP is any position to make any determination about whether the child has been abused. Even though the letter itself does not mention abuse your reasoning for sending the letter is that the kid MIGHT be suffering from abuse. Well the truth is that ANY child MIGHT be suffering from abuse.
Punishment is appropriate, but punishment alone doesn't stop future hitting.
Schools need more effective bully policies that provide bullies with skills to become nonbullies. My school district provides bullies with resources. Any child that hits another child is punished AND participates in a mandatory program that helps them learn how to control their behavior. I can't understand why all school districts don't have policies like my district, and I think it's appropriate for parents to ask districts to improve their bully policies to include teaching bullies skills---especially when their child is a victim of a bully.
Maybe it would be a good idea to refer to David as him or he a bit more often. Might humanize him a little.
That's an excellent edit suggestion!
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus
After reading this whole thread he's (I mean David's) taken on some kind of Lifetime Movie Title status in my head, so many times has he (David) been mentioned by name. Even God is referred to as He or Him sometimes.
She does not KNOW that he is being abused. All she KNOWS FOR SURE is that this kid is violent. That's it. He might be the victim of abuse. But he might not. He might have a mental illness. But he might not. He may be witness to domestic violence. But he might not. It is unfair, unwise and unethical to write a letter accusing another person of something without any proof whatsoever. I do not know the laws in Canada but in the US it is libelous to write such a letter.
Tried to rep you, Momma_bear!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick
Sending a letter like that is presuming to tell the educators their job, and presuming that you, someone else's parent, know what someone else's kid needs. It isn't your call to make, whether David needs "something more" than punishment. You, a parent, are not qualified to determine whether or not David's behavior is concerning. You CAN express that YOU are concerned with what you've heard about David's behavior.
You don't KNOW what's going on, you know only what you've heard third-hand, and some by children whose interpretation skills are not as advanced as grownups.
The staff knows what's going on, they know what to do, they know their job. It's not your place to tell them what they need to do. It IS your place to file a complaint, to let them know, for the record that you are disturbed by the reports you've received about this situation and you'd like it looked into.
And then leave it to the professionals to decide what needs to be done.
I agree w/ your post, but I would also ask if there could be additional supervision on the playground. If short on staff, maybe a mom could volunteer. David may be getting caught in the retaliation and the teacher is missing seeing what's causing him to lash out. Is he really a bully, or are several children taunting him and causing him to explode w/ anger he releases in the form of violence? Children this age need to be reminded not to hit, kick, bite or shove. They need to be taught that they have the power in their voice to yell out when confronted. They need to be taught to notify a teacher when the situation is more than they can handle.
We still don't know for sure David is a bully. With all of this hitting and kicking going on, it sounds to me that these children aren't being properly supervised. We honestly don't know who started what. We're dealing w/ 7 yr olds. The OP needs to address her own son's needs. I don't see why she should be spokesperson for all of the other moms that David has hurt.
It is not the parent's job to evaluate another student. The teacher should be qualified to do this. I'm sure there is more going on that the OP is unaware of, especially if other parents complained. The teacher may have suggested David be tested, but the parents refused.
We still don't know for sure David is a bully. With all of this hitting and kicking going on, it sounds to me that these children aren't being properly supervised. We honestly don't know who started what. We're dealing w/ 7 yr olds. The OP needs to address her own son's needs. I don't see why she should be spokesperson for all of the other moms that David has hurt.
It is not the parent's job to evaluate another student. The teacher should be qualified to do this. I'm sure there is more going on that the OP is unaware of, especially if other parents complained. The teacher may have suggested David be tested, but the parents refused.
Unaware, as in perhaps Lisalan's son could have been a participant in the group starting it, not David. That's why showing compassion for David is important. Either way, it's best for everyone involved. And Lisalan's son will learn how to have compassion for children who are different.
Seriously, IF Lisalan knew for absolutely certain that her son was involved in a gang picking on this child, I'm sure Lisalan would want to teach her son that it's not right to pick on other children. And sometimes the consequence of picking on someone is getting a bruise on your face.
Since she doesn't know for sure who the real victim really is, David or her son, she would be wise to approach it both ways and not only view her son as a victim, but also a child who needs to learn compassion. Afterall, it's very clear from what she has shared that the children in school have not had any compassion for David even before this incident.
Something to keep in mind...anything mental, from ADD/ADHD to a learning disability to mental illness, is genetic. His mother may have whatever David has, maybe they both have the same learning disability, and her bragging about his chronically getting into trouble at school is how she deals with being surrounded by other moms who brag about their honor roll kids. That's just an example, my point is, a lot of conditions etc. run in the family so his mother may well have something going on and has learned to cope with it as best as she knows how.
Thanks again for all the replies. I am getting some great feedback here. I intend to discuss David again with his actual teacher at the parent-teacher interviews. Perhaps the teacher may reveal more to me about what is going on????
Hopes thank-you I am still considering the letter. I'm not sure what to do.
I will update with more info as I get it.
Again I appreciate everyone's input on this. It means a lot
Last edited by KylieEve; 10-23-2010 at 05:13 AM..
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