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I don't think she should second-guess herself. She made the right decision by bringing the inappropriate punishment to the principal's attention. I also don't believe in living my life worrying about what other people think of me, and the truth is, I don't think other people think of us as much as we believe they do. Most healthy people just deal and move on.
I don't know. I think what happens in the classroom, discipline-wise, affects all of the students and not only those who are punished. Taking children's snacks creates a questionable atmosphere.
I totally agree. My son had a teacher who would tear up a fellow student's papers telling her she wasn't trying hard enough at handwriting. Even though his paper wasn't torn up, it terrified him. It was first grade. Maybe the little girl had an attitude, whatever. But the students in the class were affected by watching her papers being torn up. They were working their best and they feared it woudn't be good enough. Very stressful environment for first graders.
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Originally Posted by wsop
It's interesting that you mention school/social anxiety. Less than a month after school started, the teacher called me regarding my son with several concerns, one being his acting like the class clown (very unlike him), another being that he was very quiet, appeared sad and told her he didn't like his life. She actually got the social worker involved before calling me and he asked if I saw any change in my son's behavior. I did realize then that he had been complaining about stomach aches rather frequently. I told her I was taking this seriously and I would get back to her once I figured out how to handle it.
It actually escalated into out and out tantrums and tears and stomach aches to the point where a few times I literally could not get him to school. I went into panic mode and started analyzing EVERYTHING we were doing at home or that could be wrong at home, but really nothing at home had changed and he was happy as could be before the start of the school year. Then he started complaining more and more of stomach aches and not wanting to go to school and I noticed a pattern of these ailments frequently occurring the night and morning before school. He was fine after school and on weekends.
I googled and came upon two things: bullying and school refusal, but he insisted no one at school was bothering him and that the teacher was nice, so I was seriously ready to take him to a psych.
But I could not get past the fact that he was his usual happy self until it was time for bed on a school night or time to get up for school. So I called the teacher and told her there definitely was a problem, but I felt the problem was originating at school and that my son was literally in tears about going to school and complaining of stomach aches.
She got very quiet, then she told me that he seemed fine in school and she hadn't noticed anything????? Very strange, since SHE called ME just two weeks prior?
Anyway, I asked if I could come in and observe him...I thought that maybe I would recognize when a change occurred, say before gym or lunch, or see if he was being teased and the teacher just wasn't picking up on it. She told me their policy was no parents in the classroom, so I asked if she could please keep a close eye and see if she notices any changes before gym, etc.
Wonder of wonders, the complaints of stomach aches stopped, no more crying or tears before school and he has been fine ever since?
Of course, I don't know anything for sure, but it sure makes me wonder....
What I think is weird about that is her claiming there was a problem but then turning it around when you pointed out the problem must be at school. I'm not as concerned about her not letting parents in the classroom. Most schools don't allow parents in the classroom simply to observe. And, honestly, you wouldn't be able to observe anything anyway because she would be on her best behavior while you were there.
It does sound like your son had school anxiety. Just be glad the symptoms stopped. Whatever you do, don't let him stay home from school unless he has a fever or other clear illness. Headaches, stomaches, etc., can't be a reason to stay home for children who have school anxiety. Letting them stay home causes them to avoid what makes them uncomfortable and can cause school avoidance. I made that mistake. My goodness, doctors were ordering MRIs to look for brain tumors. He seriously did have headaches. He wasn't faking. A few years later, physical therapy eliminated the headaches. My point is that the problem needs to be resolved, not avoided. Hope that makes sense. Fortunately, it sounds like whatever she was doing to stress out your son is over because his stomach aches have stopped. Let's hope it stays that way.
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Originally Posted by wsop
No, but one parent did tell me she was surprised I didn't ask for a different teacher when I found out he was getting this one. Honestly, I didn't ask for details because whatever info she had would have been second or third hand. She herself never had a child in this teacher's classroom.
That's quite a reputation if it spread to second and third hand. Think about that.
I'm sorry your son has a crappy teacher this year. Pace yourself, but stay aware.
10 year olds are very difficult to deal with. I once taught a Bible school class of this age group. I went looking for information how to deal with the group. I had a set of books that told the characteristics of a 10 year old. It went something like this: They are like a pilot alone and lost in an airplane in the fog--and went on from there. I thought, "Oh, no what have I done to agree to teaching these children. God help me." Then I started praying. I have taught three and four year olds; twelve to 14 year olds, etc. but this was the most difficult group I had ever taught in my life and I would never attempt it again. I had to enlist the help of my husband and my daughter. My daughter finally had to put her face right into the face of one of the children and tell him the facts of life. I would never want to live that week over again.
At the end of the week, my husband who never says things to make a person feel good, told me that he had never seen anyone get the attention of children like I did when I started teaching. The only problem was that we had other periods such as crafts too. I wasn't teaching all the time.
You might want to pray for the teacher and the classroom students.
So, you skipped over the important concepts & ideas to focus on WHO THOUGHT OF IT?
Are you serious? If I was the principal I would have ended the meeting after 10 min, then apologized to the teacher and said, "just keep doing what you're doing"
Who cares who thought of it? who cares what you believe? seriously!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wsop
Well, the end result is the teacher will no longer be taking away a child's snack as a form of consequence for not paying attention.
So why don't I feel happy about this outcome? Here is the gist of my meeting with the teacher and principal:
The teacher stated she was having difficulties with kids not paying attention during lessons, so she decided to involve the class with coming up with consequences for this misbehavior. She claims one student suggested the teacher take a snack item when caught not paying attention, and the class thought this was a great idea! Hence, since the class decided this as a whole, it is an acceptable classroom consequence, and it has been working really well! And the principal backed her up on this!
Ok, lady, I DID NOT JUST FALL OFF THE TURNIP TRUCK YESTERDAY! Even if I believe that some imaginative 9 year old actually did come up with this 'brilliant' idea (and, FTR, I don't believe it), there is no convincing me that the rest of the class went along with this!
Okay, I kept that one to myself, but what I did say was this: "Miss X, while I am not going to come out and say that what you are telling me is not true, I find it extremely unlikely that a child suggested the taking of their snack as a consequence, and even more unlikely that the rest of the class agreed with this. Not only that, you as the adult and teacher of the classroom should have recognized immediately that this form of consequence is inappropriate and you should have steered the class in a different direction."
I then went on to say to the principal that I was very surprised that she would find this sort of punishment an appropriate method of classroom management for 4th graders, and that in all my 24 years of having children in the public school system, I have never encountered a teacher who needed to resort to the taking of food in order to make their class pay attention.
Later in the day I asked my son if the class came up with this rule together. My son's exact words were: "No way! This just popped into her head one day when some kids weren't paying attention. She told us from now on you have to either give me a snack or do extra spelling if I catch you not paying attention. We were all like, nooooo, don't take our snack!"
Sooooo, basically, she lied. She also lied about what she does with the snack. My son is EMPHATIC that once you have your snack taken away, YOU DO NOT GET IT BACK. IT IS NOW THE TEACHER'S. According to her, she takes the snack, labels it with the child's name and places it in her cabinet for some future day when the child MAY forget his/her snack. Come on! Some of the snacks she has already taken are half eaten. Does she expect me to believe she is storing half eaten food in her cabinet?
She also stated there have only been a couple of RARE occasions where she has taken a snack, yet my son tells me LOTS of kids have given the teacher their snack, and the other child ran down a list of kids that was several names long!
There's more, but as I write this I am just getting so disgusted that I can't even think straight.
So, you skipped over the important concepts & ideas to focus on WHO THOUGHT OF IT?
Are you serious? If I was the principal I would have ended the meeting after 10 min, then apologized to the teacher and said, "just keep doing what you're doing"
Who cares who thought of it? who cares what you believe? seriously!!!
You take one line out of several paragraphs and apparently stopped right there. The point was NOT who thought of it. The point was that the ADULT in the room should have immediately recognized the inappropriateness of the consequence.
These were the points I made:
"...you as the adult and teacher of the classroom should have recognized immediately that this form of consequence is inappropriate and you should have steered the class in a different direction."
"I then went on to say to the principal that I was very surprised that she would find this sort of punishment an appropriate method of classroom management for 4th graders,..."
"...I have never encountered a teacher who needed to resort to the taking of food in order to make their class pay attention."
And, not sure if you noticed, but some of what I posted were my THOUGHTS, i.e., not verbally expressed.
Sorry, but I DON'T believe the class as a whole or even as a majority voted to have their snacks taken away. Have you seen the amounts of food 9 and 10 year old's consume?
There comes a point where I have to start believing my son. That point has come. He has told me several things so far throughout the year that I have blown off as unlikely or reasoned that he must be perceiving things incorrectly. But my son's details on the situation and another child's details on the situation are exactly the same. They have already BOTH said there was NO VOTE. The teacher decided it was either extra HW or snack. I no longer have any reason to disbelieve him.
Case in point: Going back to October my son told me the teacher and class are always talking about his food allergies. My son has life-threatening food allergies. I assumed he was exaggerating. I felt that while the teacher probably did discuss it with the class once or twice, I was sure she knew enough not to bring it up too often.
Well, I stopped in the classroom for 10 minutes on Halloween to check the safety of the food. The teacher, not once, not twice, but SIX times called the entire class to attention regarding my son's allergies! Example, Class, class! Let me have your attention. I want to thank those who brought safe foods in because of (INSERT SON'S NAME) allergies. Class, let me have your attention. These candies have no label, so because of (INSERT SON'S NAME) allergies, you will have to put them away. Each time she called the class to attention, my son sunk lower and lower in his chair.
Now, for the record, I believe she actually meant well. But where is her common sense? I don't believe she has any! Not to mention the HIPPA privacy laws she just broke SIX times in 10 MINUTES!
My youngest DD's teacher would not let them go to lunch on time. As a form of punishment, they had to sit at their desks while the teacher opened up her lunch & ate it in front of them.
They would get to lunch 10 to 15 minutes late.
It's funny looking back at that. It didn't last long once the kids came home & started telling their parents.
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