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This seems far more idealistic a depiction of these things than the actual state of affairs is. Young adults (ages 18-22), simply do not generally live in a paradigm conducive to their independence and self-management, because of the financial constraints on them. Since parents of adolescents do often find it difficult to let go, they still tend to restrict them to some extent, and are able to, since he (or she) who controls the purse controls the person.
Yes, I understand. My response to the post I quoted was really for the benefit of that particular poster. (Although I stand by it in principle - I realize it's not that black and white).
Here in OZ we have a thing called "schoolies week".
We have been teaching our kids obedience, respect and responsibility and they have been doing really well in some potentially difficult situations. So I am leaning toward letting my daughter attend if she asks. If she does, then I will probably stay at the coast nearby so she can call to be rescued if required.
However there is a better alternative in that there are various christian groups who run camps or missions in the same week. One lot go to some pacific island and paint a school or something. the kids do some service and also have a great time. They also do some tourist stuff including water skiing and snorkling. No grog. Gender segregated sleeping. 100% supervision.
Chess, I'm sure you've had the same talk I've had with my daughter, which is if she is somewhere she needs to get out of, like a party that's getting out of hand, she can call us no matter what. Drunk, high, with a boy--God forbid, but you know what I mean--she can call home and we will go get her. I couldn't promise not to be mad, but I did promise to deal with whatever is going on calmly and get mad later. I don't ever want her to stay somewhere unsafe (like get a ride with a drunk friend) because she's afraid of telling us.
Will your son call you and tell you if something bad is happening?
Even if you had of still been living at home, what point and purpose does that serve to ask permission rather than inform? To me asking permission after that age seems like its all control issues.
I don't ask permission to go anywhere but I do pay for all my own stuff but I just don't pay rent.
I don't even inform, were all so busy with our own lives no one knows anything but itd be all control to make someone that age ask permission to go to a friends house.
Law states 18 is an adult, that needs to be respected.
Aren't you the one crying because Mommy wouldn't pay for you to play soccer?
I have to say I am so glad I don't have parents who tried to control every aspect and direction of my live in my late teens.
And I'm really glad I have the kids I do, who have turned out to be lovely, remarkable people. One of my adult children needed the supervision because she was prone to shooting herself in the foot, and one didn't have a problem with it even though she wasn't. Seems like mostly, people end up with the families they're supposed to have.
If a parent wants to damage any sort of relationship with their child once they hit 18 then say no.
I was months from 19 when I went to my very last prom and wanted to go to an after prom party, my mom told me no and that if I wanted to go anywhere after the dance it was going to be the supervised stuff back at the school.
I went anyways.
Txt, I don't know that your relationship with your mother is one I'd consider representative of anything, other than galloping pathology. There are way more issues there than just whether or not you attended a party.
And I also understand that the military has rules. But if we trust 18 year olds to be mature enough to kill people, then we should trust them to go away with their friends for a week. Otherwise, why don't we raise the formal age of adulthood to 21 and stop pretending like 18 year olds have any autonomy at all?
There's a difference, though, between "trusting 18yos" in general, and trusting them in the specific (and fwiw, I wouldn't encourage my 18yo to go in the military, either, though my 21yo was mature enough to make that decision and do well by it). While in general, eighteen is the age of legal majority, and for many eighteen-year-olds it may be no big deal, a specific eighteen-year-old may simply be too immature, too untrustworthy, or too impulsive to be turned loose with a dozen comrades on an unsuspecting public.
There's a difference, though, between "trusting 18yos" in general, and trusting them in the specific (and fwiw, I wouldn't encourage my 18yo to go in the military, either, though my 21yo was mature enough to make that decision and do well by it). While in general, eighteen is the age of legal majority, and for many eighteen-year-olds it may be no big deal, a specific eighteen-year-old may simply be too immature, too untrustworthy, or too impulsive to be turned loose with a dozen comrades on an unsuspecting public.
That's a very good point. I know this is a whole can of worms, but do you think we don't expect as much of 18 year olds now as was expected of them in the past? It seems like there are constant threads about young adults still living at home and acting like they're 12. Or threads about parents that can't seem to accept that their children are, at least in the eyes of the law, not children anymore. (This is not directed at you, Chessie).
I agree. But that won't be on MY watch. This, IS my watch.
I should add, that the whole trust issue is sticky for me. In November, I was camping, and had a call at midnight from my ex. He was at MY house, throwing out a bunch of drunk kids. My son was supposed to be with his dad that night, and had lied and said he was going to spend the night at a friends house after going to a birthday party. Long story short...my ex figured out what was going on and entered my house at 12am to one kid throwing up in the toilet, and another in my kitchen. Our son was drunk as well. Up until then, I would have bet you money that my son knew better to 1) drink and 2) lie to me or his dad. If you think I was pissed, you'd be on the right track. I will say, all the kids had made sure that there was to be safe transportation home, from others...no one drank and drove.
But I was livid and devastated. Punishment was no car and grounded for a month. And now, my son thinks I should trust him. I want to...but damn. Yes he will be off to college next fall...but I'd like to think I did my part to make sure he survives long enough to get there.
Seems like he had at least 2 opportunities to blow it with regards to your trust - with this underage drinking party and with the whole fraud leasing thing.
I am with the people who say that when he graduates, he might as well BE in college...and he will not be under your supervision at all...he's an adult (18) in the eyes of the law, and while you may want to protect him, you're gonna have to loosen the rules up (with regards to personal liberty).
However, I WOULD NEVER lie on a leasing contract...if that beach house says someone over 25 is supposed to be there, I would not perpetuate the FRAUD he is asking you to be a part of. Explain to him in no uncertain terms that rules/laws are not flexible and while you love him and support him, you're not going to break the law for him...nor are you going to tolerate his breaking the law (that includes bailing him out for underage drinking, etc).
I'd let him go on this trip provided he can finance it himself AND find some situation himself that does not require you to commit a crime or lie.
There's a difference, though, between "trusting 18yos" in general, and trusting them in the specific (and fwiw, I wouldn't encourage my 18yo to go in the military, either, though my 21yo was mature enough to make that decision and do well by it). While in general, eighteen is the age of legal majority, and for many eighteen-year-olds it may be no big deal, a specific eighteen-year-old may simply be too immature, too untrustworthy, or too impulsive to be turned loose with a dozen comrades on an unsuspecting public.
Yes, but how much of this is our fault?
When we as parents do too much for our children and never place responsibility on them, they never grow up.
It wasn't too long ago that a 13 year old boy knew enough to run a whole farm himself. Now we have infantilized 20 year-olds running around like a bunch of idiots...
Even in my own family, it was obvious...as the older child, I was encouraged to be more responsible and my initiative was encouraged...my little brother was doted on and had everything handed to him and done for him (and was more protected overall)...it took him a longer time to figure out how to do things by himself as a grown-up.
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