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Old 05-14-2011, 08:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
Nothing. I just told you guys what where some of the traits a psych we saw picked on and used to dx him with a "mild form of Aspergers".

I didn't say it. She did.
Since were so far into this I'll ask: Why did you take him to a psych in the first place?

I have to say, I'm not a psych but I know kids. Everything you have described sounds like a normal child. They're messy. They're inattentive. They space out. They don't like to pick up after themselves. He'll also forget to put the lid down. Sometimes he'll forget to lift the lid. Doesn't mean you have to take him to a urologist.
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,618 posts, read 84,875,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
You may just have to adust to the fact that you have a child who is (to you) messy. Some people are neat. Some people are messy. It's the way of the world. And the universe very often gives a neat parent a messy child. It's a cosmic "Gotcha!"

And some people are obsessive.

Like me with this thread.
The bolded says it all. I am messy. One of my sisters is messy. The other two are neat freaks. It's just not that important to me and too much time cleaning is time wasted that can be spent on better, more interesting things. Like posting on CD.
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Old 05-14-2011, 09:34 AM
 
43,011 posts, read 108,092,139 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Since were so far into this I'll ask: Why did you take him to a psych in the first place?
I was wondering the same thing.
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Old 05-14-2011, 02:19 PM
 
4,040 posts, read 7,446,469 times
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Default How we got there

Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Since were so far into this I'll ask: Why did you take him to a psych in the first place?
OK, here is how it went.

It started with some remarks I got from school (should specify, he just finished pre-K, transition to K class, and will start K in the Fall).

The teacher told me that he is very self-directed, somewhat inattentive and that he will focus ONLY on what he is personally and very much interested in. When it is something he is into (which would be mainly DINOSAURS) he is all ears. Otherwise, kind of all over the place. She also kept saying how well he is doing, academically speaking. I told her we are aware of the situation because we notice the same things at home - but OK, we'll keep an eye on it. I also gave her green light to apply whatever disciplinary measures she sees fit to make him comply.

One day, when I went to pick him up, the teacher wanted to talk to me. She was clearly frustrated that day. She said that he was disruptive that day, he would not listen/fall in line, got up from circle time, and when he was told to do X, he kind of turned with his back and passive-agressively just sit there, thus communicating that he was not going to do that whatever it was. He was not normally quite like that, but that day he managed to make the teacher's glass overflow.

So...this type of occasional behavior problems triggered our inquiry.

I asked her what she thought would be the best course of action to take - again, considering the school would not "come down" on children, they just expect them to "fall in line" without any serious consequence; and if not, they drop it on the parents to make it happen.

I also told her that I believe everything she noticed about our son is true because we too have experienced lack of focus, failure to complete tasks with him, etc. I should mention that both teachers seemed to like our son very much; most of the times they emphasized how polite, talkative and sweet he is, how well he knows his academic stuff, etc.
But this lack of "compliance" with class activities, lack of focus and his level of distractability were starting to bother them a little bit. So I was never inclined to suspect that the teachers just singled him out undeservingly or that they had something personal against him.

For example, she once said that they were practicing letters and sounds in class and my son told the teacher: "I already know these". She told him that she expected him to sit and pay attention through that activity even if he already knew those.

Frankly, I would have expected the same thing of him. So I did not blame the teacher for her reaction, neither did I think my son would deserve special treatment (as in advanced classes, etc) just because he was so advanced with his letters and sounds. He knew those because we worked on them at home, not because he is a genius worth of special treatment.

I also believe that just because you know something, it's not going to kill you to repeat it and contribute to the activity in class with all your supposed awesome knowledge (for ex, by raising your hand, helping your classmates, etc).

So my message to the teacher was: "I believe you, I know you are well meaning and that you are not just singling out my son for nothing, what do you think we should do?".

She suggested: "why don't you ask the ped's opinion about it too - and let me know what she said".

I also asked the teacher: "in your opinion, as a teacher, do you suspect he might be ADHD, ODD, any sort of "D", or Lord knows what other psychiatric something you hear about today, all over the place?".

She said "no", she thought he was a completely normal child and that if he was ADHD or something else, he would have been bouncing off the walls or engaged in other, much weirder behavior. She also supported me when I told her I am normally against the idea of medicating a child for any of these so-called "conditions" - especially when the condition just looks like plain, old-fashion mischief or bad behavior.

So we went to the ped. We had expressed some similar concerns to her before, she had taken note of them, said "he is fine but let's keep an eye on it, just in case any reports come from school".

And now... there we were in ped's office with...ta-daa! - report from school.

She said that she thinks my son is (quote), "a lovely and very bright child", and that it might not hurt to give him a quick evaluation before he starts K, just to stay on the safe side and to make sure we start school on a great note. So she referred us a to a psychologist she knew well, according to her (apparently friend), and whom she trusted.

We said OK...and this is how we got to the psych.

We absolutely did not go there looking for a diagnosis, but rather for a reassurance that there IS no diagnosis to be applied, and that we are just witnessing annoying behavior within the normal childhood behavior range.
We kind of forgot that when you go to a psych's office, they will look long and hard for a diagnosis, even if you just expect some reassurance that it is all within the range of normal.
We went there expecting to hear "he is a normal child, he just has these little behavioral issues, apply A. B and C with consistency, stick to it and have a nice life".

At the most, we were prepared for an ADHD diagnosis, if any at all.

Instead, after she spent 3 hours with him, we were shocked to hear that she thought he might have Aspergers. She did not give the dx right there, on the spot, she just said that this is what she kind of saw after the 3 hours spent with him and that we will talk more at the follow-up visit.
When we came for the follow-up visit to pick up her Evaluation report, that was her verdict: Aspergers.

He came out just 1 point above the cut-off line for Aspergers on the instrument she administered to him (among others). The cut-off was 7, according to her, and he came out an 8. But of course, she said she used that instrument in conjunction with other cues/knowledge.

We were quite shocked and asked her about ADHD - and she said that she can't quite apply ADHD at this age yet but that yes, he is also likely to develop attention problems in the future.

Needless to say, as soon as we found out what she suspects, we started reading like maniacs on Aspergers and concluded that this diagnosis she gave is really too borderline for us to officially accept the label.
We will not get anywhere close to that until the school he starts in the Fall (K, in a different state) comes to us reporting problems. Then we will pick it back up from there.

In the meanwhile, we are simply working on correcting some of his apparent weaknesses (lack of focus, disorganization, too much preoccupation with dinosaurs, sometimes failing to look people in the eye when he talks to them because of being distracted by something else or being too excited about whatever HE wants to tell them, etc).

This was the story. In this thread I was trying to address just the specific
issue of "spaciness" and come up with practical solutions to teach him how not to misplace/lose things.

I received some really good feed-back, so thank you everyone!
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:15 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,798,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
I also asked the teacher: "in your opinion, as a teacher, do you suspect he might be ADHD, ODD, any sort of "D", or Lord knows what other psychiatric something you hear about today, all over the place?".

She said "no", she thought he was a completely normal child and that if he was ADHD or something else, he would have been bouncing off the walls or engaged in other, much weirder behavior. She also supported me when I told her I am normally against the idea of medicating a child for any of these so-called "conditions" - especially when the condition just looks like plain, old-fashion mischief or bad behavior.
That should've been the end of it, right there. You believed he is normal, the teacher (who is the only one who spends as much - or more time possibly, with your child when your child is not sleeping)...believes he is normal.

He's not even six yet. Of COURSE he has trouble focusing. He's FIVE. He's five, he's five, he's five. Bonus points if he is tying his own shoes and asking where babies come from.

He's FIVE. Stop looking for trouble where it doesn't exist. You're -creating- the trouble.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:33 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,198,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
I spanked, yes. I don't do it anymore because, the vast majority of times is not necessary anymore. With my younger one, 3 yo girl, I don't because I never had to. She is an easy, malleable child and she is simply not asking for it.

With my son...oh, Lordy. Those were some really terrible 2-s, or rather 3's and 4's. It is better now.

But yes. I still believe in spanking. Sorry.
First, syracusa, I kind of admire people who can put it all out there and let other people peel them apart.

Ok: Here's what I see inside your particular orange: I've gone back to this previous post for a reason.

I think you want a nice, manageable little boy. One who puts his crayons away right after he uses them. One who looks people in the eye. One who will do what you want him to do. Just like your daughter.

That's not what you were given. You were given a little boy who is bright, creative, probably spontaneous, and who doesn't have time for the teacher who wants him to stand neatly in line with the other kids. Mainly because there are much more interesting things in the world.

(Teacher probably bores him to death.)

One upon a time these kids were called spirited. Inventive. When they got older they were called the man who invented thumb drives.

How comfortable are you with trying to adjust your expectations on what a little boy is supposed to act like? Because I think if you try and change him, if you try to limit him, he is going to shut down like a car that needs premium and you've just stuck cheap, 87 octane in him.

Does it really matter that much that his crayons are on the floor when he's done drawing a picture? Or does it matter that he's drawn a picture of a pegasaurus that has magical wings that can lift a 2,000 lb creature to heights no one can imagine?

I'd take the pegasaurus. And at the end of the day say, "OK Bub. Crayons off the floor and back in the box because tomorrow I'm going to need a picture of a triceratops."

There's worse things on Earth than a floor full of Crayolas.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:34 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 108,092,139 times
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The teacher said she didn't think he had ADHD. But you still continued to look into it with your pediatrician?

Honestly, it sounds like your son is EXTREMELY bored at school sometimes---possibly because he's bright!

If that's the case, WHY would you look to fix HIM? Instead of everything you've been doing, I would have been asking the school district to test him to see if he's gifted.

An intelligent, bored child will disrupt class. I don't care how much you or the teacher disciplines.

You shouldn't punish a child for being intelligent, creative, or whatever he is. You should find the appropriate school that challenges him.

Even if he's not bored, he very well just might be a normal boy. Just because he's not a zombie like most of the other children does not mean he needs to be fixed.

Buy triangle crayons and let him have fun coloring like the normal five year old he is! His being messy isn't a sign of anything.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:48 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,250 posts, read 42,798,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
The teacher said she didn't think he had ADHD. But you still continued to look into it with your pediatrician?

Honestly, it sounds like your son is EXTREMELY bored at school sometimes---possibly because he's bright!

If that's the case, WHY would you look to fix HIM? Instead of everything you've been doing, I would have been asking the school district to test him to see if he's gifted.

An intelligent, bored child will disrupt class. I don't care how much you or the teacher disciplines.

You shouldn't punish a child for being intelligent, creative, or whatever he is. You should find the appropriate school that challenges him.

Even if he's not bored, he very well just might be a normal boy. Just because he's not a zombie like most of the other children does not mean he needs to be fixed.

Buy triangle crayons and let him have fun coloring like the normal five year old he is! His being messy isn't a sign of anything.

Repped for truth. And my advice about the crayon-holders on the other side of the room, and one crayon at a time, still holds. This kid is obviously creative, and doesn't need to learn something he already knows. Yes, he DOES need to learn how to sit still, but you don't teach a kid that when he's five. You ease him into it sometime between 3 and 8. By 8, he should know how to sit still. For - maybe 10 minutes at a time. Maybe.
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:03 PM
 
4,040 posts, read 7,446,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
Bonus points if he is tying his own shoes and asking where babies come from.
The former: not (has never had very good fine or gross motor skills).
The latter: he had attempts but I told them the stork brought them to me because I really love theis old-fashiond stork story for small children . But then he asked me where do animals get their babies from if they have them in their tummies? He wanted to know what exactly do they come out of?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
He's FIVE. Stop looking for trouble where it doesn't exist. You're -creating- the trouble.
Well, the teacher said check with the ped and the oed said "why don't you check with this payshcologist"?

Should I have rejected the suggestions?
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Old 05-14-2011, 04:08 PM
 
4,040 posts, read 7,446,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
The teacher said she didn't think he had ADHD. But you still continued to look into it with your pediatrician?
Yes, because she said SHE doesn't really think it is this but I should nevertheless check with the ped. She sounded like she would rather defer to the ped.
It is also possible the teacher may have said "no" out of "social desirability". Few teachers, especially pre-K teachers, will tell the parents to their face "I think your son is SO ADHD" especially when they know they are NOT qualified to make such evaluations.

So her answer was 'I, for one, don't really think so, but why don't you check with your ped".
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