Being a stay-at-home mother (harmful, day care, SAHM, baby)
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ZOOOMMMM....That was the point of that post going right over your head.... I'm not advocating putting kids in boxes, only pointing out that kids seemed to turn out better when we weren't fawning all over them. For all the exploring they do, they lack creativity and inquisitiveness. My personal opinoin is they've had mom or a dcp doing too much for them. They need to figure out how to entertain themselves. How to just sit and think. The don't need to be engaged every minute. Perhaps those boxes and play pens weren't so bad in concept.
what's "better"? who's judging? are there statistics on how much "better" kids whose parents didn't spend any time with them are, compared to those "fawned over"?
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I think our kids are too entertained these days. I think they have too much done for them. I think they are not learning to think for themselves as a result. When I was a kid, my mom kicked us out of the house and told us to come back when the street lights came on from a pretty early age. I used to go exploring in the woods. Got lost a few times....learned NOT to ride my bike down the hill by the creek and that you really shouldn't eat those red berries that grow back by the walnut trees. I performed a lot of experiments out there. Ran home for a few bandaids from some of them too...but, I'm who I am because I was given the freedom to figure out what worked and what didn't on my own without mom hovering over me. She was great at the "I told you so" lectures after my experiments though.
When I was growing up, no body fretted over how much time they spent with baby. Baby got changed and put in a play pen while the adults did adult things. For all our efforts and increases in time with our kids, we don't have one shred of benefit for our kids to show for it. In fact, our children may be more fragile than we were.
That's great that you've been able to "explore" and get away with not much more than some bandaids and a stomachache. What if you had in fact run your bike INTO the creek, or ate something truly toxic, or ran into the wrong person? My dad grew up in the country with a very similar parenting approach, my grandma had to work a lot to provide for them as a single mom, they ran around with the boys from the neighbourhood everywhere. One of these boys drowned in the river where they went swimming; my dad almost did too, but managed to get out. Another was paralyzed after jumping down from a roof where they climbed up. Personally, I will take the risk of my child being overprotected and hovered-upon, but safe, sound, and alive.
Keep in mind in those times parents didn't do this because they thought it was a great way to parent, they did it because they had no other choice, whether it was work or household chores. In my grandma's time, some women would have to go off to work and leave newborn babies alone, sucking on a piece of bread dipped in milk and sugar. But I bet they wouldn't have to worry about their kids being too fawned over.
ZOOOMMMM....That was the point of that post going right over your head.... I'm not advocating putting kids in boxes, only pointing out that kids seemed to turn out better when we weren't fawning all over them. For all the exploring they do, they lack creativity and inquisitiveness. My personal opinoin is they've had mom or a dcp doing too much for them. They need to figure out how to entertain themselves. How to just sit and think. The don't need to be engaged every minute. Perhaps those boxes and play pens weren't so bad in concept.
I think our kids are too entertained these days. I think they have too much done for them. I think they are not learning to think for themselves as a result. When I was a kid, my mom kicked us out of the house and told us to come back when the street lights came on from a pretty early age. I used to go exploring in the woods. Got lost a few times....learned NOT to ride my bike down the hill by the creek and that you really shouldn't eat those red berries that grow back by the walnut trees. I performed a lot of experiments out there. Ran home for a few bandaids from some of them too...but, I'm who I am because I was given the freedom to figure out what worked and what didn't on my own without mom hovering over me. She was great at the "I told you so" lectures after my experiments though.
When I was growing up, no body fretted over how much time they spent with baby. Baby got changed and put in a play pen while the adults did adult things. For all our efforts and increases in time with our kids, we don't have one shred of benefit for our kids to show for it. In fact, our children may be more fragile than we were.
Yet you advocate day care. The very nature of day care is a structured environment. My kids were indeed gently shoo'ed out the door to play and explore on their own. I called them in for lunch and dinner. They had no schedule to keep, except for the one I chose.
You also seem to think the income of two is preferable to living within the means of a single wage earner. I would rather spend the time with my family, in whatever home my DH could provide us with, than aspire to more and lose time with my children.
I know many, many women with the same mind set you have, that more money equals a better life. I also know many who are happy with less material things, and more family time. To each her own.
I know many, many women with the same mind set you have, that more money equals a better life. I also know many who are happy with less material things, and more family time. To each her own.
My brother is a multi-millionaire. He can't believe that I'm happier than he is with my husband's meager government salary. Money does not = happiness.
You said SAHM's are worthless. I am a SAHM currently. Therefore, I am worthless in your eyes. You think everything can be measured with a monetary value. You say worthless. I say PRICELESS.
Having 2 incomes isn't always "necessary" but people do it. People do a lot of things that aren't necessary. If it makes them happy, leave them alone.
Please find one post where I said SAHM's were worthless. Being a SAHM, simply, adds no value over being a WM. Children do not turn out better because mom SAH. They may or may not turn out better because mom worked, depending on the finances.
I don't care what you do. I care that you insist on claiming that being a SAHM adds value over being a WM when research does not support that. SAH is irrelevent. Which is why it's a choice. When things really matter, you don't really have a choice. This is a choice because, finances aside, it doesn't matter.
More family time only matters if you don't have enough family time. So, to make this argument, you need to first establish that WM's don't have enough family time. Go ahead.... There's actually very little difference in family time between the two households because you can't have family time when dad is off to work. It doesn't matter if both parents are working or one, you can't have family time until they get home so, how much more family time do you have than me? You do have some because you can do all the housework and yard work during the day so your dh doesn't have to but that's all you really gain. However, that's moot if you can't establish that WM's don't have enough family time. Having more only matters if one doesn't have enough. Once you have enough, more is just more. You may prefer it but it makes no difference.
There are 168 hours in a week, I'm at work 45 of them and I sleep 49 of them. That leaves me 74 hours a week at home. Is that enough for family time??? What you are missing is that we have so much more leisure time than families did in the past because we have so much less work to do at home. What matters is that we have enough time with kids and enough time as a family. There is no reason to believe that WM's are short on either. What they're short on is time for themselves but this isn't about me anymore. It's about my family. If I was worried about me time, I wouldn't have had kids.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 10-02-2011 at 06:21 PM..
Please find one post where I said SAHM's were worthless. Being a SAHM, simply, adds no value over being a WM. Children do not turn out better because mom SAH. They may or may not turn out better because mom worked, depending on the finances.
I don't care what you do. I care that you insist no claiming that being a SAHM adds value when research does not support that. SAH is irrelevent. Which is why it's a choice. When things really matter, you don't really have a choice. This is a choice because, finances aside, it doesn't matter.
I don't think anyone ever said that children in general turn out "better" when the mom SAH. Again, what's "better"? All anyone has said is that for their family in particular, things run better and everyone is happier when the mom is at home. Big difference.
My brother is a multi-millionaire. He can't believe that I'm happier than he is with my husband's meager government salary. Money does not = happiness.
No one said it did. We're talking safety nets here not millions. It's scary how fast we went through over $50K when I lost my job and I wasn't the sole bread winner. We still had dh's job. It would have been many times worse if I had been the sole breadwinner.
Yet you advocate day care. The very nature of day care is a structured environment. My kids were indeed gently shoo'ed out the door to play and explore on their own. I called them in for lunch and dinner. They had no schedule to keep, except for the one I chose.
You also seem to think the income of two is preferable to living within the means of a single wage earner. I would rather spend the time with my family, in whatever home my DH could provide us with, than aspire to more and lose time with my children.
I know many, many women with the same mind set you have, that more money equals a better life. I also know many who are happy with less material things, and more family time. To each her own.
Where did I say I equate money with happiness? Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that and don't believe it. I'm talking about saftey nets and making sure your future is secure not making more money. I have to wonder how many SAHM's here are taking the same risk my sister did.
I, actually, don't advocate structured day care. That's why my kids attended a monetssori day care. Our dcp used to joke that it was her job to send my kids home dirty and tired and she was good at it. I gave up on cleaning the knees of their pants after the first week. Dirt is good. She had a mangerie of animals. I really need to stop by and say hi. I haven't seen her in a couple of years.
I did not like the structure at the center but wasn't comfortable with home day care before my kids could talk but I don't think it was an issue because the dcp's had 4 babies to one adult. I don't think they got hovered over and much of the time was simply free play. They encouraged babies to play by themselves and with the other babies. I think you're mistaking my statement that centers have developmental experts on staff for saying over structuring is good. I don't think over structuring is good but the ratios at centers kind of eliminates much hovering on the part of the adults so I'm not really sure it's an issue. I, certainly, would not structure, and did not structure my children's days at home. No toddlers reading in this house.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 10-02-2011 at 06:35 PM..
Again, it is folly to assume that a given one-income family has not prepared for financial difficulties. It's quite possible that as a group we are more likely to have planned ahead because we know we cannot rely on a second income in a case of disrupted employment.
She is right. She never called SAHMs worthless. She called them unnecessary and unimportant. That is much better.
Still wrong. I didn't call THEM unnececessary and unimportant, I called the act of staying home unnecessary and unimportant. If you don't have to do something and it makes no difference if you do it, what would you call it?
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