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Call me a Pollyanna--but love and happiness are the only measure of success I care about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel
Yes, wow! I shudder at this notion, knowing as many people as I have who had SES as the determining factor for how they raised their children. The majority of those children have one memory of their childhoods and a common story to tell,
"My parents were more concerned about what I wore, how fancy our house looked, how fancy our cars were, than anything else. They wanted me to go to a certain college, because it looked good. They wanted me to volunteer for everything, because it looked good in my resumes and on my college applications. They never cared about what made ME happy. They never had time for that. All they cared about was how much money I was going to make, because if I was financially successful, that made THEM look successful. If most people would have realized how miserable our family really was, what actually went on behind those closed doors, they would have been a whole lot less impressed with my parents."
I'd be lying if I said it wasn't somewhat important to me, but it is far from the only factor. By being home for the last 4 years, I've given my kids some great memories of places we've gone and things we've done. And I don't think that staying home has in any way harmed the future SES of my kids.
I'd be lying if I said it wasn't somewhat important to me, but it is far from the only factor. By being home for the last 4 years, I've given my kids some great memories of places we've gone and things we've done. And I don't think that staying home has in any way harmed the future SES of my kids.
To be honest with you, SES is somewhat important to me, too. However, those memories, those other life skills, I find those to be equally as important. A college education is very important to me, as is doing well in school, but I want my children to know how to "take care of themselves and their dwellings", so that they don't have to rely upon others for everything but their jobs. I want them to have good relationship skills as well...and for my grandchildren's sake....I want them to know how to be excellent parents, an excellent wife, and excellent husbands.
1. Generational Poverty - The harsh conditions of this type of poverty may keep these families from breaking the barriers for generations.
2. Working Poor - These families live paycheck to paycheck, often in fear of being laid off.
3. Working Class - Generally these workers have more stable employment than the working poor. They may use their hands and bodies as a primary tool to do their work.
4. Situational Poverty - A crisis (e.g., health, divorce, etc.) results in an income drop causing these situations. They generally are able to make it back to middle class due to their assets such as education, family support, etc.
5. Risen from Poverty Middle Class - They have gained some resources. They often become the “safety net” for others (their immediate family, friends, etc.). (Source: Sharif Abdullah)
6. Illusory Middle Class - These Americans have houses, cars, TVs, etc., but they also have staggering debt associated with each possession. (Source: Sharif Abdullah)
7. Lower Aspiring Middle Class - Adults imitate neighbors with consumer purchases. Going to college is emphasized with children although they may not have gone to college themselves.
8. Solidly Middle Class - They own their home and have investments or business. Assume children will be college graduate/professionals.
9. Upper Middle Class - They have a higher income due to professional jobs and/or investment incomes.
10. Millionaire Middle Class - They have a net worth of over a million dollars, but have not mentally accepted their wealth. (Source: Sharif Abdullah)
11. Owning Rich - They own income-producing assets sufficient to make paid employment unnecessary.
12. Ruling Rich - They hold positions of power in major institutions of society and may live secluded lives or are protected from the general public.
Source: (Donna Beegle, 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by funisart
A very good guide to SES. On this scale our family is in the upper 5th. as are many on this board--it is the level above upper middle class.:
Thank you. These were both interesting and helpful links. As I predicted earlier, my income doesn't make that much of a difference in terms of our SES. It bumps us to a higher rung of middle class, that's all.
I'd be lying if I said it wasn't somewhat important to me, but it is far from the only factor. By being home for the last 4 years, I've given my kids some great memories of places we've gone and things we've done. And I don't think that staying home has in any way harmed the future SES of my kids.
The amount is not as much as some posters would think:
The study, by economist Angus Deaton and psychologist Daniel Kahneman, who has won a Nobel Prize for Economics, analyzed the responses of 450,000 Americans polled by Gallup and Healthways in 2008 and 2009. Participants were asked how they had felt the previous day and whether they were living the best possible life for them. They were also asked about their income.
The authors found that most Americans — 85% — regardless of their annual income, felt happy each day. Almost 40% of respondents also reported feeling stressed (which is not mutually exclusive with happiness) and 24% had feelings of sadness. Most people were also satisfied with the way their life was going. (See TIME's special issue on the science of happiness.)
So, where does the $75,000 come into play? Researchers found that lower income did not cause sadness itself but made people feel more ground down by the problems they already had. The study found, for example, that among divorced people, about 51% who made less than $1,000 a month reported feeling sad or stressed the previous day, while only 24% of those earning more than $3,000 a month reported similar feelings. Among people with asthma, 41% of low earners reported feeling unhappy, compared with about 22% of the wealthier group. Having money clearly takes the sting out of adversities.
At $75,000, that effect disappears
I have also heard it said that there are some people who will only be happy if they have 20% more than they have. Which is impossible.
I am not arguing against individual choice. I'm arguing for it. The fact it makes no difference means each family chooses what they like. It's just not better to choose one over the other once you negate the financial impact. Finances aside, which you do is pretty much irrlevent. The advantage seen for the dd's of WM's may only be statisically significant for all we know. I've never seen any study put a magnitude on this. We just know it's a measureable difference. The fact this difference exists doesn't mean WOH is better. It means if you SAH, you might want to take measures to help your dd's see themselves as more capable....make sure what you model isn't the primary model for your dd's. It's easy enough to find a female doctor and dentist and lawyer and expose your dd's to successful women in position to be models for them.
Wow. That is kind of like me telling you that you should take your daughters to go see a college professor in action so that when they decide to become a teacher (which the will because you are their only model in this world ), they can see how successful they can really be if they decide to become real teachers as opposed to k-12 teachers with a basic education.
As far as I see it, this notion of SES being the definitive factor in whether a child ends up a successful and happy adult is a load of bunk.
The only way to ensure that they can become that, IN MY OPINION - is to give a child the tools to do the thing that makes them fulfilled as a person and the balls to go ahead and do it, no matter what.
There are people that are miserable their whole lives chasing a model of being successful that involves money, possessions, and a fairytale notion of security. None of us are ever really secure. That is an illusion. All we can do is be happy in our pursuit of life.
The happiest people I know are the ones chasing their passion in life. I've seen people that are great in the pursuit of something worthwhile to them, who are suddenly bereft when they achieve it and have nothing to aim for anymore.
Whether that goal be money, professional success, art, music, philanthropy, raising children, whatever - as long as you are always striving to better yourself in a way that is worthy to you, then you'll be what I deem a success.
If you're great at something that will never garner you a 6 figure income, then so be it. Your children will be fine, if you are doing what you want to do. The non successful people by my definition, are the ones living lives never meant for them.
And the greatest thing we can give our kids is the courage to pursue this. Courage is everything, make sure they have that - SES be damned - and the rest will surely follow.
As far as I see it, this notion of SES being the definitive factor in whether a child ends up a successful and happy adult is a load of bunk.
The only way to ensure that they can become that, IN MY OPINION - is to give a child the tools to do the thing that makes them fulfilled as a person and the balls to go ahead and do it, no matter what.
There are people that are miserable their whole lives chasing a model of being successful that involves money, possessions, and a fairytale notion of security. None of us are ever really secure. That is an illusion. All we can do is be happy in our pursuit of life.
The happiest people I know are the ones chasing their passion in life. I've seen people that are great in the pursuit of something worthwhile to them, who are suddenly bereft when they achieve it and have nothing to aim for anymore.
Whether that goal be money, professional success, art, music, philanthropy, raising children, whatever - as long as you are always striving to better yourself in a way that is worthy to you, then you'll be what I deem a success.
If you're great at something that will never garner you a 6 figure income, then so be it. Your children will be fine, if you are doing what you want to do. The non successful people by my definition, are the ones living lives never meant for them.
And the greatest thing we can give our kids is the courage to pursue this. Courage is everything, make sure they have that - SES be damned - and the rest will surely follow.
Holy COW!! What a great post. Pearls of wisdom Fin....pearls of wisdom and flat out honest truth.
And the greatest thing we can give our kids is the courage to pursue this. Courage is everything, make sure they have that - SES be damned - and the rest will surely follow.
Now why do you suppose I have a picture of George Washington Carver in my mind?
As far as I see it, this notion of SES being the definitive factor in whether a child ends up a successful and happy adult is a load of bunk.
The only way to ensure that they can become that, IN MY OPINION - is to give a child the tools to do the thing that makes them fulfilled as a person and the balls to go ahead and do it, no matter what.
There are people that are miserable their whole lives chasing a model of being successful that involves money, possessions, and a fairytale notion of security. None of us are ever really secure. That is an illusion. All we can do is be happy in our pursuit of life.
The happiest people I know are the ones chasing their passion in life. I've seen people that are great in the pursuit of something worthwhile to them, who are suddenly bereft when they achieve it and have nothing to aim for anymore.
Whether that goal be money, professional success, art, music, philanthropy, raising children, whatever - as long as you are always striving to better yourself in a way that is worthy to you, then you'll be what I deem a success.
If you're great at something that will never garner you a 6 figure income, then so be it. Your children will be fine, if you are doing what you want to do. The non successful people by my definition, are the ones living lives never meant for them.
And the greatest thing we can give our kids is the courage to pursue this. Courage is everything, make sure they have that - SES be damned - and the rest will surely follow.
I could not possibly agree with you more. Bravo!
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I shudder at this notion, knowing as many people as I have who had SES as the determining factor for how they raised their children. The majority of those children have one memory of their childhoods and a common story to tell, 
money and happiness
The fact it makes no difference means each family chooses what they like. It's just not better to choose one over the other once you negate the financial impact. Finances aside, which you do is pretty much irrlevent. The advantage seen for the dd's of WM's may only be statisically significant for all we know. I've never seen any study put a magnitude on this. We just know it's a measureable difference. The fact this difference exists doesn't mean WOH is better. It means if you SAH, you might want to take measures to help your dd's see themselves as more capable....make sure what you model isn't the primary model for your dd's. It's easy enough to find a female doctor and dentist and lawyer and expose your dd's to successful women in position to be models for them.