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Old 09-25-2011, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,472,760 times
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Assuming everything in life is scientifically quantifiable and true for each and every family...

 
Old 09-25-2011, 07:00 PM
 
572 posts, read 1,299,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Assuming everything in life is scientifically quantifiable and true for each and every family...
Well according to Homer Simpson: "Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of people know that."
 
Old 09-25-2011, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,472,760 times
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If Homer said it, it must be true.
 
Old 09-25-2011, 07:15 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,557,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Assuming everything in life is scientifically quantifiable and true for each and every family...
For the majority of us who fall within two standard deviations, it really is. This is how psychics appear to be able to read you. They know that most people are close to average and they know what the averages are. All they need is a few simple questions answered and they can size you up in just a few seconds.

The funny thing is, MOST people insist on believing they are nowhere near aveage. When the very nature of averages means most will be average.
 
Old 09-25-2011, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,557,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
I think the "better" Ivory is referring to quantitatively is from

Maternal employment and perception of sex roles among college students.
Vogel, Susan R.; Broverman, Inge K.; Broverman, Donald M.; Clarkson, Frank E.; Rosenkrantz, Paul S.
Developmental Psychology, Vol 3(3, Pt.1), Nov 1970, 384-391.

Where it was found that children on working mothers had a higher sense of innate equality of men and women and their roles.

Additionally, a summary by the APA of 50 years worth of research showed that there were no detrimental effects of mothers working on their children.

Maternal Work Early in the Lives of Children and Its Distal Associations With Achievement and Behavior Problems: A Meta-Analysis," Rachel G. Lucas-Thompson, PhD, Macalester College; Wendy A. Goldberg, PhD and JoAnn Prause, PhD, University of California, Irvine. Psychological Bulletin, Vol. 136, No. 6.

A nice summary of that article can be found here:

Working Moms’ Kids Turn Out Fine, 50 Years of Research Says – TIME Healthland

So quantitatively there is no difference in achievement or behavior and there are slight but statistically significant difference where the children of WMs are more likely to find women and men to be more equal.
Our daughters also have higher educational and career goals and attainment. Most likely, this is just the acorn not falling far from the tree given that the more education a mother has the more likely she is to work. Given that maternal education is one of the strongest predictors of success in children, this may not have anything to do with actually working.
 
Old 09-25-2011, 07:28 PM
 
572 posts, read 1,299,896 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Our daughters also have higher educational and career goals and attainment. Most likely, this is just the acorn not falling far from the tree given that the more education a mother has the more likely she is to work. Given that maternal education is one of the strongest predictors of success in children, this may not have anything to do with actually working.
Again, you are assuming a lot. For one thing, you are assuming that mothers who are educated work. I happen to have 2 bachelor's degrees and a few master's hours, I stay at home. Most of the people I associate with, many are military spouses, are the same. Many have bachelors, masters, and I even know a few PhDs, who while highly educated opt to stay home with their children.

FTR, I really resent that working mothers have this impression that those of us who stay home are uneducated country bumpkins. FWIW both candidates in the last Presidential Election were fighting for the "Soccer Mom" vote. So while we may not "contribute much to society," we are a powerful section of the population. And far as providing a smart successful female role model for my daughter, I think I can do that without working-- I'm a 4-time marathoner, I do fitness consulting pro-bono, I'm a soccer coach, I tutor autistic children, I'm an assistant religious education teacher and I'm a GWOT veteran. Just because I don't put in a 40 hour work week, doesn't mean I sit on my butt, eat bon-bons, shop on QVC, and watch my shows all day.
 
Old 09-25-2011, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,472,760 times
Reputation: 41122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
For the majority of us who fall within two standard deviations, it really is. This is how psychics appear to be able to read you. They know that most people are close to average and they know what the averages are. All they need is a few simple questions answered and they can size you up in just a few seconds.

The funny thing is, MOST people insist on believing they are nowhere near aveage. When the very nature of averages means most will be average.
It has nothing in the world to do with being average - or not. Just like you mentioned in one of your posts, you couldn't imagine the stress level if YOUR FAMILY had to make do with one salary. YOU determined that would most likely raise the stress level in YOUR home. Other things might raise the stress level (or something else) in another person's home. That is what varies. Not that it "can't" be done, but that may not be the way another family best functions. Statistics can't measure that. Sorry.
 
Old 09-25-2011, 08:47 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,744,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Assuming everything in life is scientifically quantifiable and true for each and every family...
Omg really? Who said "everything in life" is scientifically quantifiable? Talk about strawman argument. When you have to change what people said to try to make a point it sort of undermines that point.

So now science is inherently wrong? Really? Just to justify something? This is starting to sound like YECs. Sheesh.

Look studies use large sample sizes in order to compensate for the natural variations found between humans. The statistics are not arguable with a meta-analysis of this size, there really is no difference in achievement and behavior for the kids of SAHMS and WMs, which is all that I stated. That is both quantifiable and true for the majority of (note no one ever said EVERY) families.
 
Old 09-25-2011, 08:50 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,744,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojo61397 View Post
Again, you are assuming a lot. For one thing, you are assuming that mothers who are educated work. I happen to have 2 bachelor's degrees and a few master's hours, I stay at home. Most of the people I associate with, many are military spouses, are the same. Many have bachelors, masters, and I even know a few PhDs, who while highly educated opt to stay home with their children.
Its not an assumption. I am sure there are plenty of SAHMs who are highly educated but the numbers don't lie. Generally they tend to have lower education levels. It isn't like its as dichotomous as WMs being all PhDs and SAHMs not high school grads. It tends to be the difference between bachelors and grad degree.

Quote:
FTR, I really resent that working mothers have this impression that those of us who stay home are uneducated country bumpkins. FWIW both candidates in the last Presidential Election were fighting for the "Soccer Mom" vote. So while we may not "contribute much to society," we are a powerful section of the population. And far as providing a smart successful female role model for my daughter, I think I can do that without working-- I'm a 4-time marathoner, I do fitness consulting pro-bono, I'm a soccer coach, I tutor autistic children, I'm an assistant religious education teacher and I'm a GWOT veteran. Just because I don't put in a 40 hour work week, doesn't mean I sit on my butt, eat bon-bons, shop on QVC, and watch my shows all day.
Who said that?

Maybe you are the exception to the statistics but the data shows that daughters of working mothers have higher education and children of WMS have a higher sense of equality between the sexes.

You can argue that it doesn't apply to YOU specifically all you want, and no one can tell you it isn't true but your experience does not remotely cancel out 50 years and nearly 100 research studies covering hundreds of thousands of people. Your unique experience does not equate to those of far more people.

Last edited by lkb0714; 09-25-2011 at 08:59 PM..
 
Old 09-25-2011, 08:52 PM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,744,701 times
Reputation: 20852
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
It has nothing in the world to do with being average - or not. Just like you mentioned in one of your posts, you couldn't imagine the stress level if YOUR FAMILY had to make do with one salary. YOU determined that would most likely raise the stress level in YOUR home. Other things might raise the stress level (or something else) in another person's home. That is what varies. Not that it "can't" be done, but that may not be the way another family best functions. Statistics can't measure that. Sorry.
Statistics can't measure what? Stress level? It is actually very easy to measure stress level quantitatively.
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