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OK, then ignore my last post. I thought you were saying the opposite--that you drank regularly and so thought everyone did.
But I am a person who can go out occasionally and drink four or five beers. I'm not going to get sick. And I may not drink four or five beers again for a while.
I have known two or three people who can smoke cigarettes on occasion. It's very strange, and it's very unusual. I quit, and sometimes I think it would be nice to have one, but if I did, I'd be right back into it full-time.
Well, it's just not as common for adults. There are "drinkers" and we all know one or there are people who have an occasional glass or two a couple of times a year at a special event, or just because. Teen drinkers are more likely to be the "drinker" later in life.
But, when talking about teen drinking that isn't the norm. I've never, in all my life, heard of a social drinking teen just having one or two and then saying, sorry guys, just a social drinker here, no more for me. I'm sure there are some that someone will tell me but I haven't seen them.
That is why I don't think introducing it as a parent is wise for my family. Why not just give them an experimental glass at 21 instead? Why does it have to be below the legal age? That is the same as flipping them a joint. It's not legal and it isn't legal at that age because young kids already have poor judgement. They are learning to drive, they are in school, trying to fit in, make friends. It's already hard without drinking. Teenagers die drinking every year because it impairs their judgement.
Even if I got the urge to just let them have a drink I wouldn't, it's not legal. If I can't fight that urge then how would I expect them to? What would I say while I was doing it? Here son, now this is illegal to do at your age but it's ok because I think it's ok to do here at home with me. Just don't make the same bad judgement when you are with your friends, it's not the same. So, here's a beer. It doesn't make sense to me I guess, but yes, this is my own opinion.
The one thing I hate though is people thinking it's different to let their kids do illegal drinking than illegal drugs. When it's illegal it's illegal. They aren't different until the kid reaches legal drinking age, period! If your state allows it younger than whatever the legality is then that's when it's legal. It's not legal just because it will be later.
Last edited by PoppySead; 03-18-2012 at 02:14 PM..
I'm not talking about the immediate dangers of consuming too much alcohol vs consuming too many french fries. I'm talking about how giving your teenager alcohol is supposedly more likely to turn them into an alcoholic later in life than giving them french fries as a toddler is to doom them to obesity/overweight.
There has to be more to it. Let people bicker over their correlational data in a frenzied link war; you and I know that knowing "how" is just as important as knowing "what", perhaps even more. Everyone can agree: teen drinking has gone down, while teen obesity has gone up. So why not berate the next mom you see bringing her kid to McDonald's (no matter how rarely), especially when her kid's not even 10 yet!?
Taking your kid to McDonald's once a month or once a year = baaaaad idea. Yes yes?
If you don't get it then I suggest you don't do either.
Here is a great debate on the issue. I of course side with 21 age limit but some of you won't.
This is something I agree with. Can't parents teach their teens how to drink alcohol responsibly by giving them small amounts—under supervision—before they reach 21?
Some states permit parents to do this with their own child, but there's no evidence that this approach actually works. As matter of fact, there is evidence to contrary. When teens feel they have their parents' approval to drink, they do it more and more often when they are not with their parents. When parents have concrete, enforced rules about alcohol, young people binge drink less.
Moderator cut: Snip. Please do not quote lengthy passages. A few sentences and a link is fine.
30 years ago Ronald Reagan was pres and he was a flaming liberal compared to a lot of Republicans today. 40 years ago John Kennedy was president and he was no conservative. Nor was LBJ, who followed him. Even Nixon was no RWNJ (though he was a crook). Ford, Carter, all moderates. I don't think the country was more conservative then.
I am not badgering you. You did not post one link until pressed, and you have dismissed all the links that others have posted that you personally disagree with. Your link did not say anything about parental attitudes about drinking, either.
ETA: In the 1970s, a lot of states lowered their drinking ages to 18-20. By 1988, all had raised it to 21. That may account for the heavier drinking in the 70s/80s. Effects of Minimum Drinking Age Laws
That's actually an excellent link there that i will have to chomp on some time. I will note that anytime something is legalized you tend to see larger increases in consumption of products or services which then begins to decline. Abortion for example started off high in the 70's and then began to drop. Then again that link does find a correlation in 58 % of the studies between higher drinking ages and accidents. I will disagree with america being more liberal in the past and using politicians to prove that because there are a lot of factors today that cause moderates to be less likely to desire to run for election.
30 years ago Ronald Reagan was pres and he was a flaming liberal compared to a lot of Republicans today. 40 years ago John Kennedy was president and he was no conservative. Nor was LBJ, who followed him. Even Nixon was no RWNJ (though he was a crook). Ford, Carter, all moderates. I don't think the country was more conservative then.
That is very true! I read or heard an article recently addressing this very topic. It stated out with a description of things done by a politician. The narrative described all these programs, initiatives etc and then asked to guess liberal president or conservative. You would automatically choose liberal, but in the end they were describing Dwight Eisenhower.
Many of my high school classmates didn't drink but a few socially and to this day still don't drink all that much. These were the kids I personally hung out with and I find it hard to believe they don't exist anymore. To this day I don't hang around with heavy drinkers because that's all they seem to plan their life around. I don't have time for that. So yes there are plenty of people who rarely drink for whatever reason.
Never tried any type of illegal substance. My kids might have a chance of me trying weed with them when I'm older and the pain meds from the VA aren't working anymore. I figure by then either it will be legal or I just won't care anymore and eat some brownies.
30 years ago Ronald Reagan was pres and he was a flaming liberal compared to a lot of Republicans today. 40 years ago John Kennedy was president and he was no conservative. Nor was LBJ, who followed him. Even Nixon was no RWNJ (though he was a crook). Ford, Carter, all moderates. I don't think the country was more conservative then.
I am not badgering you. You did not post one link until pressed, and you have dismissed all the links that others have posted that you personally disagree with. Your link did not say anything about parental attitudes about drinking, either.
ETA: In the 1970s, a lot of states lowered their drinking ages to 18-20. By 1988, all had raised it to 21. That may account for the heavier drinking in the 70s/80s. Effects of Minimum Drinking Age Laws
I'm surprised no one noticed that I made an error. John Kennedy was pres. 50 years ago, not 40. 40 years ago Nixon was president. The war in Vietman was going on. The draft was still in existence. Nixon was the first president to visit China, in 1972. The Democrats nominated a far-left person, George McGovern, for president. Yes, he got creamed, but I would not call the mood of the country particularly "conservative" at that time. The sexual revolution was at least 10 years old by then, many colleges were relaxing their curfews and visitation rules (this was right after I graduated from college), and both the voting age for federal elections and the drinking age in many states had been lowered.
Last edited by JustJulia; 03-19-2012 at 11:59 AM..
Reason: removed unnecessary personal comments
C'mon, PoppySead, educate me. Consider it an act of charity. What's the difference?
There are several reasons for me personally but I'll give you the main one to dispute.
It's illegal to give my 12 year old a beer but not a french fry from McDonalds. Should fries be illegal? Well, that is a different thread you are trying to start. Maybe it's deflection from the fact that you can't stick to the facts on this one. I'm not sure but by you baiting me, I'm assuming it is.
There are several reasons for me personally but I'll give you the main one to dispute.
It's illegal to give my 12 year old a beer but not a french fry from McDonalds. Should fries be illegal? Well, that is a different thread you are trying to start. Maybe it's deflection from the fact that you can't stick to the facts on this one. I'm not sure but by your baiting me, I'm assuming it is.
Yeah, I don't find that this link addresses the topic so much as it gives information about alcohol in general. Same with your reply here. I get that the reason you wouldn't give your kid (and the reason you'd suggest parents not give their kids) alcohol is because it's illegal. It doesn't address the following:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic 2.0
I'm talking about how giving your teenager alcohol is supposedly more likely to turn them into an alcoholic later in life than giving them french fries as a toddler is to doom them to obesity/overweight.
There has to be more to it.
If your logic stood on its own, giving your kid french fries probably would be illegal. Because the best I can tell, that's your entire argument: Giving your kid something that can be consumed irresponsibly is what makes them more likely to abuse it.
I'm not arguing what should or shouldn't be legal. If I wanted to change the law, I wouldn't be posting here of all places. I don't consider legality the be-all and end-all of the subject. Same goes with wanting to close a thread because a few links have been posted. If my insistence that there is more to be discussed than "the facts" means that I'm not sticking to them, I plead guilty as charged.
Lastly, I'm not "baiting" you. You can choose not to reply anytime. My question can be answered by anyone.
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I'm not talking about the immediate dangers of consuming too much alcohol vs consuming too many french fries. I'm talking about how giving your teenager alcohol is supposedly more likely to turn them into an alcoholic later in life than giving them french fries as a toddler is to doom them to obesity/overweight.
