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Ok, so if you were Steven and you show up on her doorstep on Tuesday evening for your scheduled time and she's not home, nor answering your calls and the ex isn't there or answering your calls, what would you do?
If I were the dad?
Park myself on the doorstep with a good book and wait for my daughter to get home.
When she gets home, bundle her in my arms and say, "There you are! I've been waiting for you! Are you hungry? I sure am, let's go get something to eat."
Then, as we walked to the car, I'd give her a big smoochie kiss on the top of her head and say, "You sure are growing Munchkin."
No yelling. No judgement. Just love because this is my little girl and I'm about to bust my butt getting her back on track.
I got that. So why does she reject him when he tries to be there for her? Why does she make excuses and do anything and everything she can to not be available when he's there alone for her? Why does she not want to be with him for dinner dates or their saturday daddy-daughter days? Why does she not return his calls, emails, texts, messages? Why has she completely dropped his entire side of the family?
Mel, I've been staying out of this thread, but I have an answer to this set of questions in a general sense (I used to work with teens for a living). I am not judging or casting blame, there seems to be a lot of intense emotion and decisions with difficult fall out for everyone involved.
When people are hurt, regardless of whether the reason makes rational sense or not, they sometimes lash out, most frequently at the people they hope will be there no matter what. Especially young teenagers. Especially young teenagers who may have pre-existing difficulty with appropriate behavior and controlling their own emotions. Especially those who then have family stress, regardless of the cause. Thirteen is an age where developmentally, kids think adults know nothing and all they want is to be with their friends. This goes double when the teen is emotionally hurt or confused. I am not saying to accept her refusing contact, but the fact that she is doing so is not aberrant. I don't know any of you, so I have no idea if she is pushing away as a kind of "test" or trying to communicate that she is upset in the only way she knows how or trying to exercise the only control she thinks she has in the only way she knows how, but any of those things is developmentally plausible. Again, that doesn't mean inappropriate behavior should be accepted, but it might help it make a bit more sense.
I agree with the posters who are saying your husband needs to keep trying to have regular contact with her, even if she refuses the overtures, even though it will be frustrating and demoralizing for him to keep persisting in the face of constant rejection. The consistency of the effort may not pay off in a week or a year, but with most kids it will eventually pay off. There's a saying "like water over a stone" which means that even if you can't see progress in the stone eroding in a stream, over time, the water WILL make an impact and erode the stone, one just needs to have a lot of patience.
ETA: Despite the history of her having therapists, she probably still needs to be seeing one. No teen I have ever worked with wanted to go to treatment. A skilled therapist will be able to treat her even if she lies to him/her. Sometimes it takes going through a lot of therapists to find the one that clicks.
Last edited by eastwesteastagain; 07-30-2012 at 12:38 PM..
Park myself on the doorstep with a good book and wait for my daughter to get home.
When she gets home, bundle her in my arms and say, "There you are! I've been waiting for you! Are you hungry? I sure am, let's go get something to eat."
Then, as we walked to the car, I'd give her a big smoochie kiss on the top of her head and say, "You sure are growing Munchkin."
No yelling. No judgement. Just love because this is my little girl and I'm about to bust my butt getting her back on track.
Good answer.
The bottom line is this girl needs her dad. Period. She may not know it. She may think she doesn't. But she does and it's up to her dad to figure out how to be there for her.
I got that. So why does she reject him when he tries to be there for her? Why does she make excuses and do anything and everything she can to not be available when he's there alone for her? Why does she not want to be with him for dinner dates or their saturday daddy-daughter days? Why does she not return his calls, emails, texts, messages? Why has she completely dropped his entire side of the family?
Because she's hurt. Because she's testing to see if he's going to leave her like he left her mom (her mom misbehaved and dad was gone, will he leave her if she misbehaves?). Because she's 13 and doesn't know what's good for her. Because she's his little girl and expects him to know what's good for her. Perhaps she feels worthless and wants to see what it will take to drive her father away and prove how worthless she is. Perhaps she wants to see if she is worth fighting for to him. I don't know but I know she needs her dad and that if he fails her, she will, likely face lifelong consequences of his failure.
She is a 13 year old girl. If you recall having been one, you'd know they don't always make sense nor do they always know what is good for them.
I know this much. If her dad quits fighting for her, she will devalue herself. No matter what she does, he can't quit trying. Water cuts through stone not because of its power but because of its persistence. She cannot afford for her father to fail her. He's all she has left.
I love Dewdrops answer BTW. THAT's what he needs to do.
Park myself on the doorstep with a good book and wait for my daughter to get home.
When she gets home, bundle her in my arms and say, "There you are! I've been waiting for you! Are you hungry? I sure am, let's go get something to eat."
Then, as we walked to the car, I'd give her a big smoochie kiss on the top of her head and say, "You sure are growing Munchkin."
No yelling. No judgement. Just love because this is my little girl and I'm about to bust my butt getting her back on track.
Good idea!!!! I shall pass this along to him. And just FYI, he's never once raised his voice to her and he doesn't judge her either. He's just frustrated and fed up and wants his daughter back. This is something I can use to help them! Thank you so very much.
Because she's hurt. Because she's testing to see if he's going to leave her like he left her mom (her mom misbehaved and dad was gone, will he leave her if she misbehaves?). Because she's 13 and doesn't know what's good for her. Because she's his little girl and expects him to know what's good for her. Perhaps she feels worthless and wants to see what it will take to drive her father away and prove how worthless she is. Perhaps she wants to see if she is worth fighting for to him. I don't know but I know she needs her dad and that if he fails her, she will, likely face lifelong consequences of his failure.
She is a 13 year old girl. If you recall having been one, you'd know they don't always make sense nor do they always know what is good for them.
I know this much. If her dad quits fighting for her, she will devalue herself. No matter what she does, he can't quit trying. Water cuts through stone not because of its power but because of its persistence. She cannot afford for her father to fail her. He's all she has left.
I love Dewdrops answer BTW. THAT's what he needs to do.
She's hurt, ok. But as far as believing her mom just simply "misbehaved" so daddy took off is a fallacy. Mom repeatedly slept with another man. IN THEIR BED. While the daughter was home. And then after 4 years of dad trying to mend things with her when most guys would've bolted after having their wives cheat, started doing it AGAIN. So, this goes far beyond "mommy messed up so daddy left". And she wasn't 3 yrs old when this was all conveyed to her. She may not be that bright, but she totally understands that when one person ruins their marriage vows to that extent, it's not expected or implied that the other person is just going to stay in that kind of situation.
He's not going away. He repeatedly shows up at her home, calls her, texts her, emails her, messages her. She's the one who is rejecting HIM. He's trying and showing her over and over again how much he wants to be there for her. He won't ever quit. It's not in him. Sure, he threw up his hands, told her fine, I'm done, and walked away for a little while. But it was just that - a little while, because he didn't want to say anything to her he'd regret later on. He won't fail her like her mother does every single day of her life.
And yes, I agree about Dew's answer. I will pass that along to Steven and see if that's something he'd like to try. Tomorrow is their Tuesday. It's been almost a month since they've spoken. I'm hoping something goes well and they can reconnect.
The bottom line is this girl needs her dad. Period. She may not know it. She may think she doesn't. But she does and it's up to her dad to figure out how to be there for her.
I agree with you, which is why I've been trying to suggest ways to him to get the ball rolling again. If it means he has to park his ass on her door and not take no for an answer, so be it. But, again, he's tried forcing her to spend time with him and it doesn't work out well. I'm hoping for a better outcome if he tries Dew's suggestion tomorrow evening after work.
And I will say this again, for the delicate issues you are dealing with-- DON'T do it on this forum. IMO you are getting horrible "advice"... you have nothing to feel guilty about, and neither does your husband. You are both trying.
Mel, I've been staying out of this thread, but I have an answer to this set of questions in a general sense (I used to work with teens for a living). I am not judging or casting blame, there seems to be a lot of intense emotion and decisions with difficult fall out for everyone involved.
When people are hurt, regardless of whether the reason makes rational sense or not, they sometimes lash out, most frequently at the people they hope will be there no matter what. Especially young teenagers. Especially young teenagers who may have pre-existing difficulty with appropriate behavior and controlling their own emotions. Especially those who then have family stress, regardless of the cause. Thirteen is an age where developmentally, kids think adults know nothing and all they want is to be with their friends. This goes double when the teen is emotionally hurt or confused. I am not saying to accept her refusing contact, but the fact that she is doing so is not aberrant. I don't know any of you, so I have no idea if she is pushing away as a kind of "test" or trying to communicate that she is upset in the only way she knows how or trying to exercise the only control she thinks she has in the only way she knows how, but any of those things is developmentally plausible. Again, that doesn't mean inappropriate behavior should be accepted, but it might help it make a bit more sense.
I agree with the posters who are saying your husband needs to keep trying to have regular contact with her, even if she refuses the overtures, even though it will be frustrating and demoralizing for him to keep persisting in the face of constant rejection. The consistency of the effort may not pay off in a week or a year, but with most kids it will eventually pay off. There's a saying "like water over a stone" which means that even if you can't see progress in the stone eroding in a stream, over time, the water WILL make an impact and erode the stone, one just needs to have a lot of patience.
ETA: Despite the history of her having therapists, she probably still needs to be seeing one. No teen I have ever worked with wanted to go to treatment. A skilled therapist will be able to treat her even if she lies to him/her. Sometimes it takes going through a lot of therapists to find the one that clicks.
Thank you. You make perfect sense. And yes, I do believe it's her way of controlling her dad, since he took that control away from her when he split up with her mom and started listening to his family and friends about how spoiled she was. She still controls her mother and hates that her dad took his life back. She told me that once. She said "mom still does everything I ask her to do but why doesn't dad anymore? I think if I say he shouldn't do something, he shouldn't do it and it makes me mad that he doesn't listen to me anymore" I replied to her that kids aren't supposed to control or run their parent's lives. They are the children, the parents are the adults and that both her parents admitted they made the mistake of putting her in a position of power at a very young age. She seemingly understood because when I asked if her friends treated their parents the same way she treats her, she said no, but they wish they could!
The therapy issue is another thing that now we have no control over. Her mother took over the child's health insurance when my husband switched jobs and got put on my policy since his new company didn't offer any. I cannot cover the child under my insurance, as she's not my child, nor am I her legal guardian. We are currently living paycheck to paycheck with little extra money, and while most people say "well, isn't her mental health a priority to you?" Of course, but so is gas in our vehicles to get us to work, rent for a roof over our head and the Xcel energy bill for lights in the house. So, no, we cannot afford to pay out of pocket for a therapist for her. He pays his ex a larger sum of child support now to cover Z's health insurance, but bottom line is, if mom doesn't take her to therapy, she doesn't go. Mom claims she doesn't need therapy so she refuses to take her.
Could we take her to court and enforce this? Probably. But we also don't have the money at this time to do so. And for another poster's suggestion of Steven moving out and setting up a second household just for he and his daughter, again, can't afford to do so even if he wanted to.
Right now, we're lucky to have $10 left over from every paycheck and that's cutting it close. If his other job goes through, things may change for us financially and we can only hope and pray that happens.
She's hurt, ok. But as far as believing her mom just simply "misbehaved" so daddy took off is a fallacy. Mom repeatedly slept with another man. IN THEIR BED. While the daughter was home. And then after 4 years of dad trying to mend things with her when most guys would've bolted after having their wives cheat, started doing it AGAIN. So, this goes far beyond "mommy messed up so daddy left". And she wasn't 3 yrs old when this was all conveyed to her. She may not be that bright, but she totally understands that when one person ruins their marriage vows to that extent, it's not expected or implied that the other person is just going to stay in that kind of situation.
He's not going away. He repeatedly shows up at her home, calls her, texts her, emails her, messages her. She's the one who is rejecting HIM. He's trying and showing her over and over again how much he wants to be there for her. He won't ever quit. It's not in him. Sure, he threw up his hands, told her fine, I'm done, and walked away for a little while. But it was just that - a little while, because he didn't want to say anything to her he'd regret later on. He won't fail her like her mother does every single day of her life.
And yes, I agree about Dew's answer. I will pass that along to Steven and see if that's something he'd like to try. Tomorrow is their Tuesday. It's been almost a month since they've spoken. I'm hoping something goes well and they can reconnect.
Good for you guys, I really really hope it works out and that everybody finds some peace.
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Good answer. 
