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LOL. If we were playing chess, this might be a checkmate. Nice job!
This is really hilarious. And goes to show that so many of our preconceived ideas about what is right are highly influenced by our cultural surroundings.
That quote also reminded me of Bertie Wooster. He was always reading in bed. And it was definitely masculine. :-)
Many of those people still think it would be wrong for me to work outside of the home. I don't let it bother me. :-)
The problem with this is just because someone thinks a thing doesn't make it true. If someone comes on the board and says something dumb, and untrue, people are going to voice different, maybe even accurate, opinions.
Similarly, it is not intrinsically wrong for women to work outside the home, nor is it intrinsically effeminate for men to stay home with children....and the wife having a normal aptitude for motherhood. It would be better if our society and economy had more respect for the natural priorities of men and women in family life.
Taken alone, these are minor questions, and each family needs to make its own choices according to its own circumstances. The underlying principles behind those choices are the bigger issue.
For the record, it's not that I'm not a good mother. I just have an intense need to be solving complex problems. My personality type is very unusual for a woman. Only roughly 2% of women are my type. I just need an intellectual outlet. I go bananas with all these thoughts and ideas in my head and no one to talk to about them. So I write. A lot. It doesn't really make up for working with a team and brainstorming, but it satisfies me for the time being. But I do love my kids and do prioritize the time I spend with them. I am actively involved in their lives and really enjoy conversations with them as well as all kinds of activities.
For the record, it's not that I'm not a good mother ... I do love my kids and do prioritize the time I spend with them. I am actively involved in their lives and really enjoy conversations with them as well as all kinds of activities.
Yesterday I had to crack down a little on a creeping habit among two of my older children: studying with their books and laptops in bed. Here's the e-mail I sent late last night:
"My dear children,
Just a reminder: please don't lay in bed during the day unless you're sick or napping! Doing your school work in bed is just bad form. (FYI - by 'in bed' I also mean 'on the bed', whether under the covers or on top of the covers.)
School and computer use should normally take place at a desk, table, or on the sofa while sitting in an upright position. Sitting on the floor is also acceptable. Laying on the floor is not preferred, but I may choose to overlook it if it doesn't happen too often. Or not.
If you have extenuating circumstances and need to do your school work while reclining in bed, please ask me first. I'll assess the situation on a case-by-case basis.
Boys, I'm probably going to be harder on you about this than I will be with the girls. Sorry.
William, please keep your computer at the desk, and ask permission before taking it to your bedroom. You may use it in the living room or dining room without permission if needed.
These rules apply to those of you over twelve years old. If you see that your sibling appears to have forgotten these rules, please gently remind him. Help each other out.
I appreciate the cooperation!
- Your loving father"
And this morning, I received a reply from my college-bound daughter:
"Does this apply only to school? Also, you say reclining; does that include sitting? so....is it permissible to sit (or lie?) on my bed and read or write non school??"
To which I responded:
"No, it doesn't only apply to school, but to all waking hours.
Yes, I mean to include sitting on the bed as well.
Here's the deal. The parenting goals are as follows (just in case you become a parent someday):
1. Civilization: When you're up, you're UP and ready for anything. In bed you're not ready for anything.
2. It's not good for older children to habitually isolate themselves in their bedrooms without some necessity. Why not? They can't be easily found by parents and siblings: we forget they're here. They're harder to supervise and keep track of. They don't learn how to deal with annoyances. They are less available to help with the family when needed. They forget about other 'eyes' nearby and, perhaps, forget what they're supposed to be doing.
3. The bed is too comfortable. You don't have any reason to move - to stretch your legs, go for a walk, get that blood circulating, etc.
4. For boys, it just seems effeminate. When I see a kid under a blanket on the bed I want to bring her hot chocolate and maybe a kitten. But you should help set the example for ....
5. William. All of this is mainly about William, so that he doesn't feel singled out for persecution, and he can't say 'but you let Rachel do it!'
Having said that, if I didn't see this every day, if it only happened now and then, it wouldn't bother me. But it's becoming habitual and the habit needs to be broken.
Like I said, if you have some compelling reason, let me know and I'll give it some thought.
Thank you!"
(Names changed to protect the guilty.)
What do you think? Should homeschoolers be studying in bed? Is this an example of a tyrannical, overbearing, controlling father? Or a deadbeat softie who never should have let this get out of hand in the first place?
I had to skim this incredibly lengthy thread, so may be pointing out something already noted elsewhere:
It's "lying", not "laying" in bed . It's "lie in bed", not "lay in bed".
Unless your kids are chickens.
If you're going to homeschool them, please get this right. Thanks.
BTW, I've encouraged many, many kids to read by advising their parents to push bedtime back fifteen minutes on the understanding that this time would be spent lying in bed, reading, without TV, radio, telephone, texting, etc. Just reading the material of the child's choice.
It works.
Last edited by CraigCreek; 01-24-2013 at 09:36 AM..
Reason: corrected typo
I had to skim this incredibly lengthy thread, so may be pointing out something already noted elsewhere:
It's "lying", not "laying" in bed . It's "lie in bed", not "lay in bed".
Unless your kids are chickens.
Thanks. It was mentioned here several times, and my wife and daughter corrected me as well. Mea culpa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek
BTW, I've encouraged many, many kids to read by advising their parents to push bedtime back fifteen minutes on the understanding that this time would be spent lying in bed, reading, without TV, radio, telephone, texting, etc. Just reading the material of the child's choice.
It works.
That's a pretty good idea. We've done this before at the child's request ... maybe we'll make a routine of it.
Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 01-24-2013 at 12:21 PM..
My post wasn't angry...But, I'll answer your question, because I sense you really would like to understand why many posters took your "effeminate" comment negatively.
IMO, It comes from trying to change sexist comments in our society that make a child or anyone feel less than. Most sexist comments are negative.
So, for me that is where I tried to make you see by my post, that saying something that sounds derogatory to your son, about females is like people saying "That's so gay" which is considered derogatory enough that there are public service announcements trying to get people to realize how negatively that one saying is perceived by many.
Granted, You may not have meant it that way....but many perceive your comment that way. We of course are only speaking of our own perceptions, who knows how your son, or your other children, including your female children perceived your comment. You may want to find out.
Thanks for this reply. I'm still trying to figure out what sexism means. Generally, I think of sexism as "believing one sex is ontologically inferior to the other", "having contempt or disrespect for one sex or the other", or something along those lines. By that definition I am not a sexist and did not say anything sexist. But if you mean by sexism "acknowledging that sex differences exist, that they are good, and that cultural norms reflecting those differences are important", then perhaps my statement about effeminacy was an expression of sexism - and I don't believe it was harmful at all.
Let me just make a short digression here. There is a venerable, age-old tradition among boys and men of light-hearted and good-natured teasing about perceived effeminate traits. This can go too far, and frequently it does, but it's not a bad thing in itself and helps boys grow up to be men. [Note: It is definitely prone to go too far in our time because of the hyper-masculinity that is rising as an unconscious reaction to feminism. That's one reason we home school. Feminized schools have become factories of hyper-masculine thuggery among boys who have zero direction on how to express their masculinity.] But it's normal and healthy for boys to be nudged by gentle teasing into masculine behavior. "Hey, you throw like a girl!" is a taunt that has motivated many a star male athlete. It's not misogyny. It doesn't mean that women aren't valued. It just means that men are expected to behave a certain way.
Naturally, without the virtue of charity, like anything else this can devolve into cruelty. Charity means understanding that some boys are not helped by the teasing due to their circumstances. At one of our summer camps we had a boy, about 13 or 14, who was extremely effeminate. He was raised by a mother, three older sisters, and all of their female friends while his dad was off working and away from home a lot. It was the saddest thing I had ever seen. The other boys were kind to him and tried to get him to participate in their games, but he usually declined. As far as I know, he wasn't teased. Everyone could sense this was a unique situation and the usual rules don't apply. The boys at this camp were all home schooled and from families where charity is taught and modeled. I tried to befriend him and encourage him, but he was withdrawn and seemed to live in a fantasy world.
Anyway, back to the OP ... you will note the humor (or the attempt at humor) and light-hearted nature of my effeminacy remark. That's the spirit in which it was made.
Oh, and for the record, the second e-mail was only sent to my daughter as a reply. She may or may not have shared it with her brother. However, I have said things like this to my son before and will probably do so again. I know the boy pretty well. He can take it. Furthermore, he appreciates direction like this and it shows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanND
And, I still believe sitting at the table w/ your children and communicating...part of which involves listening...would be the most effective parenting a person can do. I do not believe calling a child, a co-worker, a spouse out in a broadcast email is ever supportive.
We spend several hours together in person every day, and that's where 99 percent of our parenting happens. I explained upthread why I chose an e-mail in this case: it had a "dad must really be serious" quality to it. I can now report to you that it was extremely effective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JanND
Good luck on your homeschooling, I sometimes which that I had chosen that route.
Thank you, JanND. It's not for everyone but we have been immeasurably blessed by it.
Last edited by WesternPilgrim; 01-24-2013 at 12:06 PM..
It's not the end of the world, but we're not aiming for mediocrity here. I'm not worried about my boys being effeminate, but about developing effeminate habits that won't serve them well in life - even small habits known to no one but themselves. I still don't understand what you think is inconsistent about this.
Are you afraid your child will grow up to be like Tim Gunn? A very highly respected man in his profession who is world renowned and well paid? Oh the horror! I would be quite content to see my child grow up to be someone so positive, happy with life, living their dream, and be successful.
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