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Ok toddler isn't a very good term (my daughter was toddling at 9 months too but definitely did not have the mental capacity of a "proper" toddler!). I'd say that when they start exhibiting toddler-like defiant behaviour (proper tantrums, ignoring you when you say no or stop, that kind of thing) is when they understand that they shouldn't make a mess on purpose and it needs to be dealt with.
Or more directly to the point, when they begin to test how you are going to react to their playing with their food!
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As I said before, our children were prepared with basic table manners, taught and practiced at home or at "kid friendly" restaurants before they ever were allowed to go to more up scale places, "the world of find dining". My DH believed they had to earn the right to go to those places and we began that training at home, so as not to offend other diners.
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Originally Posted by twoincomes
That's a philosophy from yesteryear, back when wives used to stay home and raise children while men worked and played golf on the weekends.
While I expect my children to behave, and do not take our children to finer, more upscale places, I also don't believe that children must stay at home until they're old enough to be pleasing for everyone else. We take our kid with us everywhere because we are a family and we spend time together as a family. The old school idea that you hire babysitters while you and your wife attend a symphony has been replaced with the new school idea that the whole family goes out to the ballgame together.
My wife and I both work, and we have a need to maximize the amount of time in evenings and weekends that we spend together. If there was a theory that children don't to out to eat until they are old enough not to offend any other diners, that'd mean no meals out for us for a number of years.
Nope, that excuse doesn't fly. This is pretty much what we did and all during the time I was raising my children I was either working full-time (during some of that time I was the sole support of the family while my husband was finishing college) or more than full time starting and running my own business. (My kids are 11-1/2 years apart so I got to do the parenting thing for about 30 years, all told.)
As for spending time together as a family, there's two ways that works. One is that you sit down to dinner at home together (you can both prepare the meal or you can switch off, as we did) as a family and you spend time together in the evenings as a family, at home or at the park or at family restaurants or at other kid-friendly venues. It is equally critical to the health of the family for the mother and father to have together time without the kids so that they don't forget that they are human beings, too, not just parents - that's what babysitters (either paid or friends you trade off with or family members) and nice restaurants are for. Remember, some day those kids are going to be grown up and off on lives of their own, if you've taught them that independence is healthy and desirable (if not, they may be living with you until they're 35 or 40), and it will be you and your wife again, and you need to have maintained that relationship separate from the children (who are children no longer).
I left the baby in the trolley while I put the shopping in the car, then took the trolley back and then carried her back in my arms.
This is how I and everyone I knew did it back in the Dark Ages (there were no special grocery carts for kids or reserved parking spaces for parents with children or any of that back then). I usually had my son in his baby seat (much smaller and less involved than those I see today), which was easy to carry and which sat nicely and securely in the cart. When I returned the cart, I just picked him up in his seat and took him back to the car. While putting the groceries in the car, he was right beside me in the cart, strapped in.
I used to park near the corrall when possible. When it wasn't possible, I would leave the cart up on a curb or in an empty spot during the years when I had a toddler and an infant. I wasn't going to leave them to trek across the parking lot, and I also wasn't able to take them both with me to return the cart. I know, scandalous.
This is really just the "I'm a perfect parent" argument, though. Go to any fifth-grade classroom and pick out which kids have parents who let them eat crackers in restaurants, which always returned the grocery carts, etc. It can't be done. It's nice to clean up after your kids, but there's really no reason to pretend that their futures depend on it. I mean really, how silly!
I used to park near the corrall when possible. When it wasn't possible, I would leave the cart up on a curb or in an empty spot during the years when I had a toddler and an infant. I wasn't going to leave them to trek across the parking lot, and I also wasn't able to take them both with me to return the cart. I know, scandalous.
This is really just the "I'm a perfect parent" argument, though. Go to any fifth-grade classroom and pick out which kids have parents who let them eat crackers in restaurants, which always returned the grocery carts, etc. It can't be done. It's nice to clean up after your kids, but there's really no reason to pretend that their futures depend on it. I mean really, how silly!
People, for the most part, have become irresponsible pigs. I'd clean up after my child, but most people today cannot seem to even walk through a grocery store while holding an empty coffee cup until they get to a trash can. They'd rather leave it sitting on a shelf for someone else to clean up.
I used to park near the corrall when possible. When it wasn't possible, I would leave the cart up on a curb or in an empty spot during the years when I had a toddler and an infant. I wasn't going to leave them to trek across the parking lot, and I also wasn't able to take them both with me to return the cart. I know, scandalous.
How did you first obtain the cart? Was it delivered to your home and taken with you in your trunk? Funny that you could juggle your children and still successfully obtain that cart, but when it came time to go home, you just couldn't think of a way to return it.
Moderator Cut.
Last edited by Jaded; 07-30-2013 at 01:02 AM..
Reason: rude and argumentative
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