Does Pennsylvania need less school districts? (Wall, Atlantic: living, cost of living, retired)

[rowhomecity]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

Come back when you actually know what you're looking at. Or rather when you can interpret what it is you're looking at.

You rather read an interpretation of a first source from a media site than sift through the actual sources.

The educators association. Pennsylvania ranks higher than Maryland in education.

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by rowhomecity

You rather read an interpretation of a first source from a media site than sift through the actual sources.

The educators association. Pennsylvania ranks higher than Maryland in education.

In what?

The NEA is an educator's association as you said. It does nothing in what you linked comparing metrics such as graduation rates, SAT participation, ESL education, FARM student achievement, etc. Those are how school systems, and by extension education in states, are assessed and ranked.

The only thing I could find where PA was 11th in was number of teachers in the state.

Like I said, you don't even know what you're looking at.

Some background for you:
https://www.ecs.org/50-state-compari...ility-systems/


You called this widely accepted source clickbait:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ation?slide=11

Another widely accepted source you label as clickbait

https://www.forbes.com/sites/reneemo.../#272805de3897


You know about as much about education as you do the transportation industry.

[rowhomecity]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

In what?

The NEA is an educator's association as you said. It does nothing in what you linked comparing metrics such as graduation rates, SAT participation, ESL education, FARM student achievement, etc. Those are how school systems, and by extension education in states, are assessed and ranked.

The only thing I could find where PA was 11th in was number of teachers in the state.

Like I said, you don't even know what you're looking at.

Some background for you:
https://www.ecs.org/50-state-compari...ility-systems/


You called this widely accepted source clickbait:
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-sta...ation?slide=11

Another widely accepted source you label as clickbait

https://www.forbes.com/sites/reneemo.../#272805de3897


You know about as much about education as you do the transportation industry.

I will be polite and say. Thank you.

[trackstar13]

Originally Posted by villageidiot1

The original topic here is, "Does Pennsylvania need less school districts?" Your point is interesting, but there were 28 posts here before you mentioned sports. Your argument is PS should not consolidate school districts because consolidated larger high schools would not have other comparable high schools with whom they could compete.

There are a couple problems with this argument. The first is, consolidating school districts is a separate issue from consolidating individual schools. Many school districts have operating for a number of years with multiple high schools before merging them into fewer schools. A couple that come to the Armstrong School district, which has changed several times over the past couple decades. The most recent change consolidated what was once four high schools into two. Another was the Albert Gallatin school district, which at one time had Albert Gallatin, German Township, and Fairchance-Georges High Schools. They operated three high schools for 22 years.

I was using sports as one example, but this also applies to academic programming, school lunch programs, activities, etc. Pennsylvania as a state could use significant consolidation of resources including police, fire, school, etc. The real issue here is consolidating school districts is not very easy given our current school funding formula and the fact that many PA residents move to an area based on school performance. A few years ago the Erie City Schools superintendent suggested closing all of the Erie high schools and sending the city kids to surrounding county schools because it was unfair to cut the budget any further or raise school taxes for residents. This of course caused an uproar, and Erie county politicians lobbied to help the city schools get more money to stay open. In my opinion, the school funding formula needs changed before large scale district consolidation can happen.

https://www.goerie.com/article/20160518/NEWS/610135178

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

I was using sports as one example, but this also applies to academic programming, school lunch programs, activities, etc. Pennsylvania as a state could use significant consolidation of resources including police, fire, school, etc. The real issue here is consolidating school districts is not very easy given our current school funding formula and the fact that many PA residents move to an area based on school performance. A few years ago the Erie City Schools superintendent suggested closing all of the Erie high schools and sending the city kids to surrounding county schools because it was unfair to cut the budget any further or raise school taxes for residents. This of course caused an uproar, and Erie county politicians lobbied to help the city schools get more money to stay open. In my opinion, the school funding formula needs changed before large scale district consolidation can happen.

https://www.goerie.com/article/20160518/NEWS/610135178

I totally agree. The savings from school district consolidation will do little to solve the problem. The state needs to take responsibility and change the funding formula. At that point, the state can decide on the best school district structure for the state. Harriisburg forced school district consolidation in the 1960s. School district debt is the major stumbling block. Who would merge with Penn Hills with their current debt crisis. But that example points out the problem with the current school district governance situation with locally elected boards. See https://triblive.com/news/pittsburgh...-general-says/

[North Beach Person]

Originally Posted by villageidiot1

I totally agree. The savings from school district consolidation will do little to solve the problem. The state needs to take responsibility and change the funding formula. At that point, the state can decide on the best school district structure for the state. Harriisburg forced school district consolidation in the 1960s. School district debt is the major stumbling block. Who would merge with Penn Hills with their current debt crisis. But that example points out the problem with the current school district governance situation with locally elected boards. See https://triblive.com/news/pittsburgh...-general-says/

But isn't part of the funding issue not so much the formula but that the state isn't meeting its funding under the formula? That's what I gather from reports I've read from where I went to school (near you, by the way).

Clarion and Clarion - Limestone just merged football programs. North Clarion, which historically didn't have football, has been sending kids to Clarion to play for the last several years.

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by North Beach Person

But isn't part of the funding issue not so much the formula but that the state isn't meeting its funding under the formula? That's what I gather from reports I've read from where I went to school (near you, by the way).

Clarion and Clarion - Limestone just merged football programs. North Clarion, which historically didn't have football, has been sending kids to Clarion to play for the last several years.

I'm not familiar with whether the state is meeting its funding under the formula. From what I hear, poor school districts receive a much high percentage of their funding from the state because they are unable to raise taxes for increased spending the way a wealthy suburban school district can. The Tribune-Review article I posted earlier mentioned school district millage rates. The article states: "In comparison, the current millage rate is 21.0757 mills in Plum, 24.32 mills in Mt. Lebanon, 25.35 mills in Woodland Hills, 26.972 mills in East Allegheny and 29.5 mills in Wilkinsburg.

Mt. Lebanon is a wealthy district while Wilkinsburg is one of the poorest in the state.

[eschaton]

I think PA could use some consolidation of government, but as people noted, there already has been a lot of school district consolidation. It used to be that every city, township, and borough had its own school system.

If I were in charge I'd actually try and reform our municipal system instead. Basically set a minimum population that boroughs have to meet in order to keep incorporation - say 2,500. Everything less than that has to merge with another city, borough, or township.

[wharton]

Originally Posted by villageidiot1

I'm always skeptical of of state to state comparisons but one thing that stood out in the Wallethub ranking is that they have Florida two notches above Pennsylvania. My daughter went to school and college in PA, and now teaches in Florida. She feels Florida is much below Pennsylvania in school quality. She is in her 9th year of teaching in FL, in 3 elementary schools in two different districts.

My wife retired from a large system in NEPA, a few years back. One of her job requirements was doing placement testing of students transferring in, at the middle school level. This "entrance exam" became necessary due to the fact that a lot of highly ranked students (often from southern schools) ended up basically tanking, when exposed to age appropriate class level instruction, in my wife's district. She was frequently shocked to find both Florida public school, and southern private religious based school students in general, to be grossly over-ranked, and over graded, as compared to PA. standards. It was common to find a "star student" from the aforementioned schools to be several grades behind in reading or math skills when tested. It was pretty shocking for parents to discover that their little cherubs were honor students in their last school down south, and totally lost in mid-level classes, in what was far from a top ranked school in PA.

So yes indeed, I'm a bit skeptical of claims that Florida ranks anywhere close to any mid-Atlantic or New England state.

[rowhomecity]

Originally Posted by wharton

My wife retired from a large system in NEPA, a few years back. One of her job requirements was doing placement testing of students transferring in, at the middle school level. This "entrance exam" became necessary due to the fact that a lot of highly ranked students (often from southern schools) ended up basically tanking, when exposed to age appropriate class level instruction, in my wife's district. She was frequently shocked to find both Florida public school, and southern private religious based school students in general, to be grossly over-ranked, and over graded, as compared to PA. standards. It was common to find a "star student" from the aforementioned schools to be several grades behind in reading or math skills when tested. It was pretty shocking for parents to discover that their little cherubs were honor students in their last school down south, and totally lost in mid-level classes, in what was far from a top ranked school in PA.

So yes indeed, I'm a bit skeptical of claims that Florida ranks anywhere close to any mid-Atlantic or New England state.

You are correct. Wallethub is nothing but click bait. Pennsylvania is a top 10 education state. 100%. Florida is at best at 30th or below.