Philadelphia 2035 (Columbia, Taylor, Houston: camper, season, recommendation)

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by kyb01

The East Market project, which includes my favorite grocery, Mom's, is fabulous-looking. Not long ago would I have thought that would happen? No!

The exterior work and look on the Fashion/new "Gallery" is far superior to what was there before. I hope it will work with what happens inside of it. We will have to wait and see.

The ugliest parts of the KoP Mall are the endless plains of surface parking and the garages. Ugh. So when something finally happens with 8th and Market(keeping my fingers crossed) that alone will make it much more attractive.

I'm with you all the way on all of this (including the paragraph I clipped), but especially Mom's.

My quip about that store is that "for pricey food, it's cheap."

Natural/organic products still carry a price premium, but whenever I've run across a product in the supermarket that Mom's also carries, Mom's always has the lower price. The only exception to date: unfiltered apple cider vinegar, private label (ShopRite was cheaper at the Fresh Grocer than Field Day was at Mom's).

On your other post: Actually, Century 21 and the "off price" stores in general are a hybrid of sorts: they carry mid-market designer lines at budget prices.* You'll still find similar items for less at Old Navy, H&M, Primark or the discounters, but you won't find the designer lines cheaper anywhere.

*And this is doubly interesting because now many designer brands make stuff specifically for the off-price sector, including their own outlet stores. They seem to have figured out that selling their stuff to more people for less doesn't "cheapen" the brand's cachet.

[cpomp]

Originally Posted by kyb01

Look, what's wrong with having lower end shopping? A lot of it is still fashionable. H&M. Forever 21, TJ Maxx....stuff like that. Is Century21 crap to you?

I mixed things up, price-wise, when I was building a wardrobe during my working years.

We already know where the higher end things are but KoP still does not have a Chanel boutique. Chanel is really profitable right now so it's weird.

Ugh, never mind, I'm just gonna stick to posting news since opinions can never differ, and people seem to have selective vision on my posts.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by cpomp

Ugh, never mind, I'm just gonna stick to posting news since opinions can never differ, and people seem to have selective vision on my posts.

We just disagree on what constitutes "fashion". And that's always subjective and, imo, has more to do with style, swag and panache not a big name or big store. Moschino, for instance, is awful right now since Jeremy Scott has no talent. But, for some, it's "fashion". lol.

Mostly I agree with you about it but I often add "lesser" brands. There are a ton of short jackets that would cost me 2-4 grand. Unique and surely one of a kind. I may get one of those every couple of years nowadays. More in my budget today, is a Jil Sander lookalike Tahari suit which I am wearing right now.

[AJNEOA]

"Fashion" is often not derived by places like Target because they frequently borrow or follow trends and styles at the higher-end/independent clothing lines. So, I agree with cpomp if the conversation is about "fashion" in general. And I get that a "fashion district" is indicative of a different type of place than what is suggested by the "Fashion District" that Philly is trying to create.

That being said, I think that being fashionable is more about the person and how they assemble and wear what they buy (at any price-point). I don't think anyone on any side of this conversation would disagree with this. So why not move on?

[Pine to Vine]

It wouldn’t surprise me if the Gallery makeover doesn’t come up with a different rebrand than “Fashion District.” I know initially, they were going for a kind of mini-KOP on Market, but didn’t find enough high-end retail interest. Then it was going to be an (ugh) outlet mall, which, for whatever reason, had a mercifully failed liftoff. Now, there will be a mix of restaurants and bars, a movie emporium and outlets for some retailers we currently lack in the city, such as Columbia and Levi’s. It is both, not a “fashion” district, and more than a “fashion district.” There has to be a better way to market the place.

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by Pine to Vine

It wouldn’t surprise me if the Gallery makeover doesn’t come up with a different rebrand than “Fashion District.” I know initially, they were going for a kind of mini-KOP on Market, but didn’t find enough high-end retail interest. Then it was going to be an (ugh) outlet mall, which, for whatever reason, had a mercifully failed liftoff. Now, there will be a mix of restaurants and bars, a movie emporium and outlets for some retailers we currently lack in the city, such as Columbia and Levi’s. It is both, not a “fashion” district, and more than a “fashion district.” There has to be a better way to market the place.

Exactly. I could see them going more toward lifestyle or something rather than just fashion.

[southbound_295]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Hence my remark about Brooks Brothers (whose clothes I love; I just can't afford to buy them at retail. And even off-price, they're a special treat).

If the bottom 20 percent are "poor," then the top 20 percent are "rich". That territory takes in a lot of people who call themselves "middle class."



Maybe "Philly Style Center" might be equally appropriate - though I can think of several shopping malls in California that called themselves "[mumble] Fashion Plaza" and had totally middle-market stores.

Your point about fashion is well taken, though I use "style" to connote something that isn't necessarily tied to the whims of fashion, which are transient and blowing every which way. I say about Brooks Brothers, for instance, that "it's never out of fashion because it was never in fashion to begin with." But Brooks Brothers epitomizes a certain style that everybody recognizes.

Totally agree with the concept of things that were never in style to begin with.

That's like when seersucker shows up, every few years, I buy a few for summer wear & take care of them & usually have one or two by the time it comes back the next time.

I think that Target does an excellent job of providing clothing that doesn't scream your financial status. I just don't shop there because I found a place that does an equally good job that's a bit more to my liking. Those places function like the old bargain basements. I think that department stores made a mistake when they eliminated them.

Brooks Brothers is the epitome of a classic for menswear. It's definitely not middle of the road. There used to be 4 rungs on the clothing ladder. The rung that used to be referred to as "better" seems to have vanished, which tends to muddy the waters. I remember some places used to classify Brooks Brothers as better & some classified it as upper-tier.

[Pine to Vine]

Report on improving SEPTA’s bus service released: SEPTA's*vision for a new bus network: faster, fewer stops, no transfer fees - Philly

Low hanging fruit include free transfers, all-door boarding and lengthening distances between stops in CC.

[Hannah5555]

Originally Posted by Pine to Vine

Report on improving SEPTA’s bus service released: SEPTA's*vision for a new bus network: faster, fewer stops, no transfer fees - Philly

Low hanging fruit include free transfers, all-door boarding and lengthening distances between stops in CC.

As someone who rides these buses almost every day, the only way they can get faster is to have fewer cars in Center City and finish up the construction, neither of which is likely to happen any time soon. Not sure stopping every other block instead of every block is going to do the trick. There is already informal all-door boarding and I rarely see anyone using transfers since everyone has a SEPTA card now.

I think the current routes provide good coverage. I never have to take more than two buses to get where I need to be. Riding public transit is an existential exercise that those of us who do it on a regular basis willingly accept . Hope springs eternal, though.

[MarketStEl]

Originally Posted by AJNEOA

"Fashion" is often not derived by places like Target because they frequently borrow or follow trends and styles at the higher-end/independent clothing lines. So, I agree with cpomp if the conversation is about "fashion" in general. And I get that a "fashion district" is indicative of a different type of place than what is suggested by the "Fashion District" that Philly is trying to create.

That being said, I think that being fashionable is more about the person and how they assemble and wear what they buy (at any price-point). I don't think anyone on any side of this conversation would disagree with this. So why not move on?

I wouldn't, and with the exception of how to class Brooks Brothers - I think southbound_295 made a very valuable point when she pointed out how the disappearance of the term "better" from the taxonomy of clothing classes has muddied the waters; if the top tier of menswear is the "bespoke" designers, then Brooks Brothers makes "better" menswear - I didn't really disagree with cpomp's characterization of what's "fashion" and what isn't.

But it is skewed upmarket. Granted, the "fashion" that the magazines and TV shows cover originates there, then makes its way down into the next two tiers and may end up reflected in something you see on the shelves at Forever 21 or Primark or H&M or Old Navy. But it does seem to me that there are "fashions" among the middle and lower classes too. Sean John and FUBU, for instance, would be good examples of "street fashion," which is far from high-end even if some of this stuff carries high price tags.

But I think it also useful if we can draw a distinction between "fashion" and "style." I think we need a word that describes something that's not as ephemeral as "fashion," which changes from season to season and year to year. "Style," unfortunately, overlaps; after all, things go in and out of style too. But I think it also works in the sense of describing something that's not so "of the moment."

And some retailers seem to agree with me. Before Hudson's Bay Company bought the chain, Lord & Taylor advertised itself as "the signature of American style." (L&T would also be an example of a "better" department store - a notch above Macy's but still looking up at Neiman Marcus.) Brooks Brothers, as I said above, epitomizes "style" in menswear (and more recently women's wear too) - it's a look that's timeless but easily recognized.

BTW, southbound, what's the place you've found that functions like a bargain basement? Back when I lived in Boston, I used to pick up Brooks Brothers shirts at Filene's (original) Basement (the one with the automatic markdowns) all the time. They also had an annual Harris Tweed jacket sale that packed them in. It seems that even Syms (where "an educated consumer is our best customer") has bit the dust.

In these stores' place, it seems, we now have the thrift shop. These shops vary in the quality of clothes they offer depending on where they're located, but they've become magnets for the thrill-of-the-hunt crowd (not to mention the subject of a hit rap song celebrating the trash-to-treasure one finds at them). There's an active discussion underway over in the Frugal Living forum about whether thrift shops have ceased to be an option for the poor and become a middle-class pleasure.