"The public schools aren't as bad as everyone says they are."

[Fireshaker]

Originally Posted by Angus215

Okay, "only" 2 months off in the summer, unless they CHOOSE to work another job and get paid more money. And "only" 10 personal days, in addition to all of the school holidays (including winter break and spring break) throughout the year, not to mention all summer (by contrast, most people in the private sector get maybe 20 or 25 days off ALL YEAR, including holidays). And "only" a virtually free HSA Plan instead of a virtually free outdated health plan (which nobody gets anymore). And less of a pension that they once received, but still more than anyone in the private sector gets (which is zero). I apologize if I'm not overly sympathetic to the entitlement mentality.

Tell you what, chief. Go ahead and work one year as a public school teacher in, say, Red Clay School District (Wilmington). Then come back here and tell us all how teachers have it so sweet and have such an entitlement mentality. Go ahead, I'll wait.

If not, I kindly suggest you **** about a world you don't really understand. As MarketStEl astutely points out, this reeks of jealousy. And I get it. As a corporate employee, I'm pissed off too at the erosion of our rights and benefits. It's tempting to look at some other occupations and feel more than a twinge of envy. Maybe in some cases it's justified.

But when it comes to teachers, nuh huh. I've seen firsthand how ridiculously hard they work and how comparatively little they get in return. They are the hardest workers at one of the most important and yet most unappreciated jobs. They earn everything they get, and frankly they still deserve more....as do we all.

[Fireshaker]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Which private sector do you work in?

I work in the news media, and we get an HMO/PPO-style health plan; there's an HSA available, but most of us opt for the HMO/PPO. We also get dental - a plan a colleague described to me as "really great, until you need dental work," but a dental plan nonetheless.

Now if by "zero pension" you mean no plan that guarantees you a monthly sum after you retire, then yes, no one in the private sector I know of gets one of those anymore, but we do have 401(k)s.

I spent most of my career in higher ed at two private universities; this would be the nonprofit sector. The benefits there were great, especially the dental.

If all you get is an HSA, I feel your pain; while I like the concept of being an informed consumer in principle, healthcare expenses are so costly that unless you're young and healthy, these don't work out to be such a good deal.

I guess what I take issue with is both the blanket statement regarding the private sector (I'll wager the larger the firm, the better the benefits) and the inference that that fellow's teacher friend has an "entitlement mentality." The problem isn't that their pay and benefits are too generous (their pay definitely isn't); its that the benefits have gotten too stingy in many (some?) private enterprises. (As for the pay, I'm not going to make a blanket statement, for it's all over the map in the private sector - some workers do much worse than either that teacher or the average journalist (whose income is somewhere around $35k annually), while others make out like bandits.

Edited to add: If you find it difficult to make ends meet on your regular salary (and I think many teachers get paid across the 9-10 months they work, not all 12 months, which also changes the calculus), then picking up extra courses or gigs in the summer isn't much of a "choice."

MSE, I'm not allowed to upvote you, but I'm mentally giving you 100 ones right now. Good to see you get it.

(And my fiancee is one who didn't get paid this summer, so the extra gigs were definitely not optional).

[MB1562]

Lol. 99% of people wouldn't last one day in an inner-city classroom. The job is beyond stressful, and is literally 6-7 different roles all in one (teacher, parent, social worker, psychologist, friend, mentor). The vast majority of teachers don't make six figures, and certainly not in the city. I know, I am one. Yes, our health insurance and retirement benefits are good, because they make up for the absurdly low wages we are paid in comparison to the amount of work we put in. Also, the only teachers I know who don't work in the summer are the ones who have already put 20+ years in and can finally afford not to do so. I've worked 3 of my 4 summers since starting either teaching summer school or working at a summer program. I would be hard pressed financially not to. A lot of teachers do professional development on their own time over the summer as well.

This myth that teaching is a 40 hour a week/9 month a year job is not reality. I am so sick of having to point this out to people who are otherwise intelligent about the world around them. Your corporate job benefits suck? Sorry, but that is not my fault. You want our benefits? Fine, then put in the time and effort to be certified and get your license. Then come and make garbage wages while working your ass off for the first 10 or so years while trying to pay off student loan debt. Oh yeah, and now you are responsible for 27 six year olds with wildly varying abilities, traumatic and messy home lives, and you have to teach them something in a way they can comprehend and apply. Good luck.

[kyb01]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

From what I've heard, there's a lot of tumbleweeds blowing around 440 now.

The district has pushed a lot of the decision-making down to the level of the individual school and cut the central bureaucracy dramatically.

One reason for the district's recurring* fiscal woes now is 440 the building itself. It's become a financial albatross around SDP's neck - it no longer needs all that space. But from what I understand, the district can't renegotiate its lease with the building's owner.

*I understand what whatever fix City Hall came up with has stabilized the district's finances for the next several years. But absent some changes in either revenue sources or overall costs, there will come a time again when it runs a deficit.

Interestingly I have not seen any discussion about the end of the SRC and going back to a locally controlled school board.

[BR Valentine]

Originally Posted by MB1562

Lol. 99% of people wouldn't last one day in an inner-city classroom. The job is beyond stressful, and is literally 6-7 different roles all in one (teacher, parent, social worker, psychologist, friend, mentor). The vast majority of teachers don't make six figures, and certainly not in the city. I know, I am one. Yes, our health insurance and retirement benefits are good, because they make up for the absurdly low wages we are paid in comparison to the amount of work we put in. Also, the only teachers I know who don't work in the summer are the ones who have already put 20+ years in and can finally afford not to do so. I've worked 3 of my 4 summers since starting either teaching summer school or working at a summer program. I would be hard pressed financially not to. A lot of teachers do professional development on their own time over the summer as well.

This myth that teaching is a 40 hour a week/9 month a year job is not reality. I am so sick of having to point this out to people who are otherwise intelligent about the world around them. Your corporate job benefits suck? Sorry, but that is not my fault. You want our benefits? Fine, then put in the time and effort to be certified and get your license. Then come and make garbage wages while working your ass off for the first 10 or so years while trying to pay off student loan debt. Oh yeah, and now you are responsible for 27 six year olds with wildly varying abilities, traumatic and messy home lives, and you have to teach them something in a way they can comprehend and apply. Good luck.

Preach. My wife (elementary principal) and I recently had a conversation with our oldest daughter who is expressing an interest in becoming a teacher. Our advice was “run, don’t walk away from teaching”.

The number of people choosing teaching as a profession is in a free fall. The number of education degrees awarded in PA declined by 63% just between 2013 and 2015. The state after having a teacher surplus is facing a growing teacher shortage. Fifteen percent of SDPs teachers quit. Every. F’ing. Year. But yeah, it’s a cushy job.

[BR Valentine]

Originally Posted by MarketStEl

Thanks for the backup.

My own upbringing, which I just described above, makes me a convinced and committed integrationist. It's hard for people like me out there, what with white resistance on the one side and black separatism on the other, but truth to tell, the black separatism is more a reaction to the white resistance than it is any deep-seated social or cultural preference - survey after survey has shown that most African-Americans would rather their children attend integrated schools, and by "integrated" they mean something close to a 50-50 black/white mix. (The 40/30/20/10 Hispanic/black/white/Asian ratio at Andrew Jackson would probably satisfy a lot of black parents too. And has anyone asked the parents of those 20 percent how they feel about the school? I'll bet they give answers more like the one the white Jackson parent I knew did than the ones I'm hearing here.)

And even as whites make their way towards becoming a plurality in this country, it doesn't take that many of them to produce 50/50 black/white mixes, as African-Americans account for only 12 percent of the population. We can't find that many non-scared whites out there?

An interesting fact in light of all this: Those women told me that Lingelbach was integrated when it opened in 1957. Given its location - its catchment probably extends into integrated-and-we're-gonna-keep-it-that-way, thankyouverymuch Mt. Airy - this makes sense. And it raises the relevant question: What happened that caused that to change? White flight from that part of Germantown? (Not all Germantown's whites fled - they account for about 15 percent of its population today, a rather high number for a generally low-income Philadelphia neighborhood - but I'm sure some did in the better-off quadrant too.) A decline in the level of order and discipline in the school? (The testimony of these two suggests to me that this has been fixed if this was a cause.) Or was it just that white resistance to being in a minority? (I am sure that the number of black students rose as whites did leave the catchment.)

Huckleberry3911948: Yes, those are the fundamental things that need to happen. But they're not all that should happen. Been there myself, did that myself, know the benefits of going beyond the basics.

In 1957 “integrated” meant 90% white enrollment. Whites fled Germantown at a higher rate than Mt. Airy because they were less affluent. The white families who remained sent their kids to private school but most white familes in G’town couldn’t afford private school. The same was true in East Mt. Airy which is why it went on to become 85% black.

The only reason W. Mt. Airy retained as many white familes as it did was white affluence. The white familes who remained in the neighborhood then as now sent their kids to private school. When black families moved into WMA in significant numbers in the 1960s the white families who remained abandoned the public schools. I have a lifelong friend whose older brother attended Henry through 8th grade and then went to GFS for high school in 1967. My friend started kindergarten at GFS in 1967. That’s just how white white liberals roll generally speaking. They love themselves some brown people, just not too many at their kids’ schools though.

As for finding white familes not afraid of 50% black schools, good luck. Needles in haystacks and all that.