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I would ask you to share the study but we are already drifting away from a regional focus.
Absolutely. Certainly preferable IMO to tanks and riot gear.
it sure does.
If you mean Walnut Street, it will recover. The riots that spun out of the protests accelerated what would have been likely closures in many cases,sadly.
It's relevant to Philly and other plurality-to-majority Black cities because police brutality against them never truly stopped. See then-Commissioner Frank Rizzo and later the MOVE bombing, among other tragedies.
Mod Cut - Removed off topic comments. Please stay on topic
''If you mean Walnut Street, it will recover. The riots that spun out of the protests accelerated what would have been likely closures in many cases,sadly.''
It is sad that someone can rationalize like this...lol.
I'm all for the George Floyd Memorial Park plopped in the middle of Walnut Street...why hasn't the city officially commemerated Floyd with something like this? Maybe even a Floyd statue where Rizzo stood.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 04-08-2022 at 08:59 AM..
The organization founded by those two Black lesbian socialists is not called "Black Lives Matter". That phrase is an umbrella term covering a wide range of people and groups, not all of whom share the same political philosophy or worldview but do believe that the society as a whole pays insufficient attention to what many, even most, Blacks say about things like how the police treat them — including the great majority of Blacks who do want good police protection.
And here's the kicker: If you read their argument in favor of doing so, it actually dovetails with my criticism of how too many cops behave thanks to their training: They see themselves as warriors rather than guardians in the largely Black lower-income neighborhoods they patrol. Having interacted with the cops who patrol my own neighborhood, I know that's not universally the case, but I also know that there are enough Black people who have had those other kinds of encounters to cloud the whole issue of how best to preserve order in neighborhoods like mine.
And yes, that Officer Friendly stuff the new Camden County Metropolitan Police Department implemented makes a world of difference. I challenge those of you who dismiss this argument to prove me wrong; the numbers are out there.
As far as Camden goes, I know you mention this often, but Camden PPD was taken over by the county in I believe 2011; the city was flat broke and couldn't afford its own PPD. Cops were writing citations and tickets left-n-right to raise $$.
So the county takeover was required and not some kind of novel social experiment ot fight crime.
That said, there have been positive results in reducing Camden's homicides; not so much in other crime but, yes, murders have declined there. Yet comparing Camden to Philly is truly an apples-to-oranges comparison.
Philly needs to reinstate stop-n-frisk as part of a ''broken windows'' policy. It worked in the early 2010s here and, obviously in NYC. Stop-n-frisk is a taboo a topic as is discussing family, community, and cultural issues. It's all a one-sided cop-out: systemic racism today.
I just don't know how I feel about the city right now.
Is the glass half-empty, or half-full?
1) (Old news but....) We have a police commissioner that was picked from Oregon, and a city no where near comparable to Philly in size or crime stats. Has she been up to the job?
.
As far as Camden goes, I know you mention this often, but Camden PPD was taken over by the county in I believe 2011; the city was flat broke and couldn't afford its own PPD. Cops were writing citations and tickets left-n-right to raise $$.
So the county takeover was required and not some kind of novel social experiment ot fight crime.
That said, there have been positive results in reducing Camden's homicides; not so much in other crime but, yes, murders have declined there. Yet comparing Camden to Philly is truly an apples-to-oranges comparison.
Philly needs to reinstate stop-n-frisk as part of a ''broken windows'' policy. It worked in the early 2010s here and, obviously in NYC. Stop-n-frisk is a taboo a topic as is discussing family, community, and cultural issues. It's all a one-sided cop-out: systemic racism today.
Why do you think that what was done in Camden could not work here in Philly? I know the size of the issue here is significantly larger, but why wouldn’t it scale in your opinion?
I don’t disagree with a lot of what you’re saying here. “Systemic Racism” is an ambiguous term that is constantly used to justify actions. And it’s wearing very thin on a lot of people. There are a lot of things happening that are creating more racism. And in the meantime, crime is out of control. And people are arming themselves.
As far as Camden goes, I know you mention this often, but Camden PPD was taken over by the county in I believe 2011; the city was flat broke and couldn't afford its own PPD. Cops were writing citations and tickets left-n-right to raise $$.
So the county takeover was required and not some kind of novel social experiment ot fight crime.
That said, there have been positive results in reducing Camden's homicides; not so much in other crime but, yes, murders have declined there. Yet comparing Camden to Philly is truly an apples-to-oranges comparison.
Philly needs to reinstate stop-n-frisk as part of a ''broken windows'' policy. It worked in the early 2010s here and, obviously in NYC. Stop-n-frisk is a taboo a topic as is discussing family, community, and cultural issues. It's all a one-sided cop-out: systemic racism today.
I know that the Camden City PD was dissolved for financial reasons and no others. But the new county police chief took the occasion to try some new approaches to police-community relations, an opportunity afforded him when the old officers, represented by a city FOP lodge, declined his offer of jobs with the new force. Thus he had a completely new officer corps, represented by the New Jersey state FOP, to work with.
But I don't agree that the comparison is apples-to-oranges because the strategies the new Camden County Metro PD chief employed could just as easily be employed here. What makes you think they can't scale? It seems to me that the more significant challenge would be changing the mindset of the Philadelphia PD officers who take a warrior rather than a guardian approach to their jobs. Malcolm Jenkins' ride-alongs showed that residents respond positively to officers who make an effort to get to know them.
If republicans are the saviors of law and order, why was Chester constantly ranked in top 3 highest homicide rate under 40 years of constant republican leadership. No republican has ever given a straight answer on this...
How dare you use the pain of Chester residents to "own the cons".
You're completely wrong, too. Chester was never all that bad until the '90s, and that's entirely because their public housing went from housing workers to housing the poorest of the poor when the jobs left. They put a highrise project building on their main street, which by the way was done by the county. Republicans didn't cause Chester to become violent. Liberals like you buying drugs there did. There's your straight answer, from somebody who unlike you comes from a community ruined by the drug trade.
Maybe if you actually knew anybody from Chester you might know that and stop embarrassing yourself on top of showing how classless you clearly are.
How dare you use the pain of Chester residents to "own the cons".
You're completely wrong, too. Chester was never all that bad until the '90s, and that's entirely because their public housing went from housing workers to housing the poorest of the poor when the jobs left. They put a highrise project building on their main street, which by the way was done by the county. Republicans didn't cause Chester to become violent. Liberals like you buying drugs there did. There's your straight answer, from somebody who unlike you comes from a community ruined by the drug trade.
Maybe if you actually knew anybody from Chester you might know that and stop embarrassing yourself on top of showing how classless you clearly are.
Imagine thinking only liberals buy drugs in Chester. Quite frankly, that's kind of embarrassing to believe as well. I grew up in a very Republican area and regularly knew those types of people - white, conservative, mild-to-straight-up racist, who would drive into the city to buy drugs.
The story of Chester is the story of many broke-down small cities across Pennsylvania. The thing that sets it apart, strangely, that I believe the poster you are responding to was pointing out, is that it's been run by the GOP for decades.
I see a whole lot of people from a not even remotely urban let alone working class urban background talking like they have all the answers. That is a perfect representation of exactly why Philly is getting as bad as it is. The people talking the most and having the most influence aren't from the city and don't even remotely understand any of these problems.
This isn't anything new. The actual neighborhoods normal Philly natives grow up in have been going this way for twenty years if not longer. Gentrification kept pushing it outward but the only thing keeping the crime away was the police and other organizations strong-arming the actual community on behalf of entitled transplants who now pretend to hate the police. Real street criminals fear absolutely nothing but the one thing that will deter them from crossing certain lines or doing real crime in places like Center City that bring a spotlight is a long prison sentence. The sheltered virtue signalers running things and influencing things have taken that punishment away, and it has predictably led to the conditions many (who are clearly invisible to you despite the virtue signaling) grow up in spreading out from certain communities to basically anywhere people from those communities hang out let alone move to.
I also had a good laugh when somebody said 2020 was a result of the powder keg exploding after Floyd's death in police custody, as if the people caught on video inciting things and turning peaceful protests in Center City into a riot weren't white transplants or it wasn't white transplants inciting and participating in riots and unlawful "activism" in Philly the most over the past decade. I see some people are still lying for hipsters who pretend to hate gentrifiers while gentrifying the city and pretend to hate capitalism while living lives of privilege.
Cops aren't being targeted because of anything they've done. They're being targeted because a certain segment of the population view themselves as soldiers in a war and cops as the enemy and want to get street cred by talking back to, assaulting, or especially shooting a cop. The only people who actually believe police being targeted is part of some reckoning are naive transplants and the segment of any urban community that believes a member of their community can do no wrong and must be a political prisoner or must've been framed. People trying to pretend that particular thing is a black thing are ridiculous. That attitude and that violence towards and distrust of cops has been around since before Philly even had all that many black people.
The fact that people can't see that gentrification exploding despite violence and crime exploding while regular Philly natives are struggling financially more than they have in a long time is clearly a bad thing is just mind-blowing.
The most annoying thing about all of this is the fact that most of these racial problems and this racial division and hatred of white people by a certain segment of the black and brown population is because of their experiences dealing with the very hipster transplants who even now are still talking like they're fighting for black and brown people while you displace them and gentrify their neighborhoods and impose yourselves on every single thing you can. Cops started harassing people more and making them feel uncomfortable in their own communities when you all started gentrifying them. It's University City and the universities pushing black and brown people out of West and now even parts of Southwest Philly. It's Temple causing issues in North Philly. This isn't black natives vs white natives yet that is exactly where the divide is causing the most trouble after years of bridging that divide. Stop blaming the cops or Fishtown natives with bats rightly protecting their neighborhood from a white hipster led mob and get an ounce of self-awareness for once in your lives. You make things worse everywhere you go, and somehow nobody seems to be allowed to say that. I remember when a lot of you were saying disparaging things about black Philly natives and crying racism when they didn't want you gentrifying their neighborhoods.
Imagine thinking only liberals buy drugs in Chester. Quite frankly, that's kind of embarrassing to believe as well. I grew up in a very Republican area and regularly knew those types of people - white, conservative, mild-to-straight-up racist, who would drive into the city to buy drugs.
The story of Chester is the story of many broke-down small cities across Pennsylvania. The thing that sets it apart, strangely, that I believe the poster you are responding to was pointing out, is that it's been run by the GOP for decades.
I never said only liberals buy drugs but they absolutely do buy them more than Republicans. Then again I don't come from a community that thinks it's perfectly cool to buy drugs in the city with no regard for the community there and certainly don't come from a mildly to straight up racist one.
Except it hasn't. It was run by the GOP once upon a time but that was years ago. Unless you're trying to imply that the 100% black Chester government that's been 100% black for well over a decade is somehow the same as the GOP party machine that ran most of Delco up until recently and still runs PA to an extent. Even if it was, that completely ignores my point that Chester wasn't all that violent until at the absolute earliest the '90s and that it was outsiders from the suburbs buying drugs there that caused violence to take over the city.
You're embarrassing yourself just like he did.
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