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I'm not saying you made it up. I'm just sayin' I know a pretty large network of people who live and work in Center City. People I grew up with, went to high school/college with, worked with, etc. and I have never had a conversation about 'roving teens' more than maybe two or three times. You guys seemingly bring it up on a monthly basis. I'm just not seeing it like you are.
I'm not sure it's "roving teens". But there are definitely rowdy teens. I'm not saying they're roaming Center City in packs in a circular circuit, but one two or three yelling, swearing, and acting aggressively is not uncommon for me to see personally. I'm not even in a city a lot anymore. It used to be the worst at 15th and Chestnut. One of the local schools would let out and from 2:30 p.m. into rush hour, you had to be really careful about where you walked. That's just my experience.
It used to be the worst at 15th and Chestnut. One of the local schools would let out and from 2:30 p.m. into rush hour, you had to be really careful about where you walked. That's just my experience.
This was the only other detail I was going to add. As school lets out, there is I believe two charter schools along with Friends Select & Roman Catholic, all headed towards City Hall/Wendy's/Five Guys at the same time. That is when you see a bunch of teenagers being rowdy. I don't think that's what Reddog was implying though.
I think part of the issue in Philly compared to a city like New York is that Center City is so easily accessible to a lot of teens. Are teens from Brownsville Brooklyn really going to hop on the subway for an hour to congregate in Times Square? Not sure about other cities.
But, knock on wood, I’ve never been personally affected by an unruly gang of teens other than to have to cross the street or go in a different direction.
Well, I did walk right through a rather boisterous group of young men heading the opposite direction from me on Chelten Avenue, then about ten seconds later, gunfire rang out from behind me. One of the bullets struck the hand of one of two missionaries who had a table set up in front of the entrance to the Chelten Market parking lot, about 20 feet ahead of me. (Thankfully, I wasn't hit.). This occurred last summer.
Rise in property values
More customers to local business
How is this a negative?
Quote:
Originally Posted by thedirtypirate
If you keep in mind that a certain % of people's sole goal is to keep the city exactly how it is right now, it all starts to make sense. Helen Gym is a loser who wants the city to flounder.
It's funny the article doesn't even mention or talk to anyone from the Chinatown Development Corp., the actual neighborhood association.
True, the site isn't actually in Chinatown, which has AFAIK never extended south of Arch Street. But many locals have keen memories of projects that have hemmed the neighborhood in. The two that got built are mentioned in that article; the Vine Expressway breaks the plane of the ground right at 9th Street, literally severing Holy Redeemer Chinese Catholic Church and a block or two of houses to its east from the rest of the neighborhood. Had the Phillies ballpark been built as planned, any further expansion of Chinatown north of the Vine Expressway would have been impossible. Now we have a notable community center and apartment tower on part of what would have been the ballpark site, at the NEC of 10th and Vine.
Why would rising property values be a negative? Have I ever explained my "two cheers for gentrification" stance? It does include one raspberry: "The renters do get screwed." Chinatown is:
the poorest neighborhood in all of Center City Philadelphia
the only Center City neighborhood where the overwhelming majority of the housing stock consists of rental buildings
So basically, we have a low-income community of immigrant renters here. They're directly threatened by rising property values.
I don't buy the traffic argument at all, but the section in the article about DC's Chinatown should at least give us pause. I had thought DC's Chinatown was anemic, but the data presented there strongly suggest that Capital One Arena made it that way. Also, the research I looked up on the economic impact of arenas (there's not much out there, as opposed to copious research on stadiums) concludes that the patrons don't go out and drop coin in local businesses. (That's why I described this as an "experiment" in my essay.)
The arena is not a new intrusion on the neighborhood; it merely replaces part of the existing "south wall" separating it from Market Street. But given DC's experience with Cap One Arena, I don't think I can just dismiss the fears of Asian Americans United out of hand. Even if the Sixers are indeed just beginning the process that will result (or might result) in this arena, they should have reached out to the near neighbors before taking the wraps off the project. Now, I also think that they shouldn't have immediately gone into full oppo mode once they did, but given history, it's not indefensible.
The arena is not a new intrusion on the neighborhood; it merely replaces part of the existing "south wall" separating it from Market Street. But given DC's experience with Cap One Arena, I don't think I can just dismiss the fears of Asian Americans United out of hand. Even if the Sixers are indeed just beginning the process that will result (or might result) in this arena, they should have reached out to the near neighbors before taking the wraps off the project. Now, I also think that they shouldn't have immediately gone into full oppo mode once they did, but given history, it's not indefensible.
A healthy city grows, changes, and evolves. This is a process that has been occurring since the advent of civilization. That article even states that 'Chinatown has moved north' into Callowhill. Well guess what? That area sucks still and there is plenty of space to expand. If the people in Chinatown care about the city, and not just themselves, they will let the process play out. There's plenty of time to solve traffic, noise, etc. concerns.
I feel very similarly about some of the asian grocery store closing on Washington. Move to Oregon or Snyder. To Olney or the top of Frankford. Let the vitality spread.
Interesting. Where are all the police? How about the CC District security people?
How does Greater Center City feel these days? Safe, busy, clean/dirty. etc.
For example, Manhattan seems as busy as ever (like pre-Covid), but there are A LOT of characters everywhere, and the city is as dirty as ever (less Park Avenue, Upper East Side and a few other enclaves).
The city is in desperate need of more recruits. Must not forget the Police Academy was shut down for months due to the pandemic, while a good amount of officers retired. Eventually they city is going to have to add more incentives, pay etc in order to fully staff the PD.
A healthy city grows, changes, and evolves. This is a process that has been occurring since the advent of civilization. That article even states that 'Chinatown has moved north' into Callowhill. Well guess what? That area sucks still and there is plenty of space to expand. If the people in Chinatown care about the city, and not just themselves, they will let the process play out. There's plenty of time to solve traffic, noise, etc. concerns.
I feel very similarly about some of the asian grocery store closing on Washington. Move to Oregon or Snyder. To Olney or the top of Frankford. Let the vitality spread.
Well, to that point:
The New York Times ran a story about three or four years ago about Chinese immigrants who would have settled in New York City in the past making their new lives in America in Northeast Philadelphia's Mayfair neighborhood.
And since the 1980s, the Lower Northeast has become the city's immigrant magnet.
Honestly, the "roving gang of teens" thing is the most repeated nonsense you guys always say. I lived in Philly for a decade now, and I can only think of a handful of times I ever even had to cross the street because of something like that. Never at Penn's Landing or Spruce Harbor before. The weirdo druggie bums are way more of an issue and even then, if you actually live near a corner like that, after a while you realize in Philly it's the same people rotating around. I legit have nicknames for many of the same characters I see around. For instance, whenever I see Mr. PeeBody on a hot summers day, I make sure to get as far away from him as possible.
Well, just last week while heading down Chestnut Street around 9pm...several flashing cop cars were suddenly sweeping east-west in the 1600-1800 blocks...youngins' started appearing running this way and that...no one knew what was going on at first: someone with a gun etc...cop cars parked on angles...1600 block a few kids were on the ground being cuffed...apparently this once large ''roving gang of teens'' attacked and beat an elderly woman at or around 17/Market. Multiple locations of cop cars/snagging these ''kids'' in and around these blocks.
It was a nice night, just before the heat wave, and there a decent amount of people on Chestnut including what looked to be visitors to the city.
I wouldn't call this ''roving gang of teens'' fake nonsense...because you haven't witnessed any of this doesn't mean it's not happening...telll whoever was attacked that this isn't real.
And Market East, where this Sixers' arena is planned, certainly has security ''issues''.
True, the site isn't actually in Chinatown, which has AFAIK never extended south of Arch Street. But many locals have keen memories of projects that have hemmed the neighborhood in. The two that got built are mentioned in that article; the Vine Expressway breaks the plane of the ground right at 9th Street, literally severing Holy Redeemer Chinese Catholic Church and a block or two of houses to its east from the rest of the neighborhood. Had the Phillies ballpark been built as planned, any further expansion of Chinatown north of the Vine Expressway would have been impossible. Now we have a notable community center and apartment tower on part of what would have been the ballpark site, at the NEC of 10th and Vine.
Why would rising property values be a negative? Have I ever explained my "two cheers for gentrification" stance? It does include one raspberry: "The renters do get screwed." Chinatown is:
the poorest neighborhood in all of Center City Philadelphia
the only Center City neighborhood where the overwhelming majority of the housing stock consists of rental buildings
So basically, we have a low-income community of immigrant renters here. They're directly threatened by rising property values.
I don't buy the traffic argument at all, but the section in the article about DC's Chinatown should at least give us pause. I had thought DC's Chinatown was anemic, but the data presented there strongly suggest that Capital One Arena made it that way. Also, the research I looked up on the economic impact of arenas (there's not much out there, as opposed to copious research on stadiums) concludes that the patrons don't go out and drop coin in local businesses. (That's why I described this as an "experiment" in my essay.)
The arena is not a new intrusion on the neighborhood; it merely replaces part of the existing "south wall" separating it from Market Street. But given DC's experience with Cap One Arena, I don't think I can just dismiss the fears of Asian Americans United out of hand. Even if the Sixers are indeed just beginning the process that will result (or might result) in this arena, they should have reached out to the near neighbors before taking the wraps off the project. Now, I also think that they shouldn't have immediately gone into full oppo mode once they did, but given history, it's not indefensible.
Is the Greyhound Station in play here? I read where this arena would go up to Cuthbert Street, which looks like, if it were true, to be a smaller offshoot of the arena given what else north of Arch St in the 1000-1100 block.
At first I thought this was a new Wells Fargo Center type deal but it's Sixers only...still mulling this thing over...potentially sacrificing our Chinatown location for 6 months of Sixers games?...hmm
Yes, Sixers should have reached out to the near neighbors ie the Chinese community...look at the ongoing race debacle with the Washington Avenue redo...and the black community was reached out to and included since the get go 9 or so years ago...the Chinese community didn't even get a flyer drop in their mailboxes about this Sixers arena...smh
A healthy city grows, changes, and evolves. This is a process that has been occurring since the advent of civilization. That article even states that 'Chinatown has moved north' into Callowhill. Well guess what? That area sucks still and there is plenty of space to expand. If the people in Chinatown care about the city, and not just themselves, they will let the process play out. There's plenty of time to solve traffic, noise, etc. concerns.
I feel very similarly about some of the asian grocery store closing on Washington. Move to Oregon or Snyder. To Olney or the top of Frankford. Let the vitality spread.
Tell this to other POC communities in Philly...the city grows, changes, and evolves..as in move-out; see also the almost decade long Washington Avenue redo with the #1 sign of ''long time locals move out'': bike lanes...lol.
We can't even get Washington Avenue redone started in the amount of time this Sixers arena would be up and running.
If the people on the west end of Washington Avenue are about the city and not themselves...there's been plenty of time to solve traffic, noise etc...as in 10 years and we haven't seen a steam roller in sight lol. But the Chinese community will be openly blamed for even discussing any concerns.
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