Trying to move (Phoenix, Tucson: hotel, lawyers, home)
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Location: A circle of Hell so insidious, infernal and odious, Dante dared not map it
623 posts, read 1,225,215 times
Reputation: 473
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Here's the situation:
I live in Phoenix, have for 13 years and can't stand living here. Yeah, I know... "if you don't like it, leave." That's my ultimate goal. Anyway, I know so many people here moved from some place else and aside from Vegas I can't think of a better place to ask this question. So here's the situation and question:
I lost my job for no real reason (thank you at-will employment environment Arizona loves) and unemployment doesn't suit me at all. I'd much rather go out and earn a paycheck and because under circumstances I'm free to easily travel to another state for an interview without a pesky work schedule to worry about, this is an ideal time for me to move. In any case, I have a potential interview in the Phoenix area this coming week because someone set something up for me. I would really love to get back to work, but would hate to stay in Phoenix. Preliminarily the job appears to be mine, but I have to do the song and dance to get it this week. Unfortunately, if I get it I would likely need to list it on my resume, Phoenix address and all.
Though the money would be useful, as would ending a gap on the resume I'm considering "throwing" the interview. Right now I use friends' addresses when applying for jobs in their cities so I appear local. Again, I could get to an interview out of state without having to make arrangements for time off at a local job. Though I would move tonight if possible I'm not really able to just do so right now without a job lined up elsewhere. If I get this job, fine... but I still want out of this overgrown suburb and will once the first opportunity arises. So... my questions are because so many people moved here from somewhere else, how were you able to do it? Did your out-of-state addresses hinder you?
I've lived in a lot of different cities. Many moons ago I was able to find jobs in DC and Pittburgh without being there. In more recent years I tried two more times and found it to be impossible. Just having an in-town address is not the only thing you need.
Employers take forever to decide they want to interview you but when they finally call, they expect you to come in the next day. In this job environment, where there are dozens of qualified candidates for each open job, it's nothing for employers to demand to meet with you four to six times before deciding whether they'll hire you for a professional position.
In my line of work it's now considered "normal" for employers to expect you to do spec work for them -- unpaid -- prior to a job offer. And most of the time you'll never get an offer because it isn't a real position, they just had a task they want to get done. Totally unethical but done all the time these days. All kinds of new interview styles are going on in this economy. A thread over on City-Data Las Vegas describes casinos "auditioning" potential coctail waitresses in competitive cattle-calls. In almost every city in the nation, employers are holding all the cards and they know it.
I live in Tucson and here are some of the unique Arizona experiences I've been through recently:
(1) Six weeks and multiple interviews, an actual offer made, salary negotiated, and a start date agreed to. Then the employer "unhires" me because the relative of a board member decided she wants the job.
(2) Two weeks of multiple interviews, a spec assignment agreed to where I make recommendations for how employer should address a client issue. Great praise for the results of my assignment (which took an entire week to do), then the employer doesn't answer my calls for three weeks. They finally invite me back to meet with the president who tells me my solution was so effective, they can implement it with in-house staff. "Thanks for the great work you did ... and no, we're not going to pay you for it."
(3) Job offered after only two interviews. Salary and start date negotiated. Then employer calls to say, "I know what we decided, but can you start Monday? I'm being sued and I want you to sit in on the pre-trial meetings with my lawyers." That activity not in ANY WAY relevant to the position I've been hired for, the lawsuit had never been mentioned during the interview process, and he didn't want to pay me for my pre-start-date "work" with his lawyer. Needless to say, I withdrew from that minefield.
So I ask you: how could you go through that if you were actually living in another city?
Preliminarily the job appears to be mine, but I have to do the song and dance to get it this week. Unfortunately, if I get it I would likely need to list it on my resume, Phoenix address and all.
Though the money would be useful, as would ending a gap on the resume I'm considering "throwing" the interview.
gee, lots of unemployed people would LOVE to be in your "unfortunate" situation, I think......take the job and get back to work, as you want anyway.....millions would kill to live in Phoenix, too.....and why is a Phoenix address "unfortunate", anyway?......
gee, lots of unemployed people would LOVE to be in your "unfortunate" situation, I think......take the job and get back to work, as you want anyway.....millions would kill to live in Phoenix, too.....and why is a Phoenix address "unfortunate", anyway?......
am I missing something here??
I expect that any address in any place a person hates to be would be "unfortunate" for them. I've never hated any place I've ever lived but can't say I was unhappy when I moved away. I think this person will be downright ecstatic to move!
Often times, the grass is greener over the septic tank. Sometimes, what's on the other side of the fense is a bull dog. A friend once said there's no better car then the one you own (metaphorically, this can be applied to all sorts of things).
I don't know (and don't care to know) why you hate Phoenix so much. But maybe it's better to look within and work through your problem (after all, you could end up hating where ever you move even more than Phoenix). If you really want a job you'll take a job where ever it is. (I'm not intending to sound harsh). Swallow your pride and move on.
Oh, and live life. Don't let your own feelings and judgements of Phoenix stop you from enjoying life in Phoenix. If you do that, you just might find that you actually like Phoenix.
So... my questions are because so many people moved here from somewhere else, how were you able to do it? Did your out-of-state addresses hinder you?
I think in the past whether an out of state address was a hinderance or not depended in large part on the type of job. But I also think Jukesgrrl is right about that changing in recent years, and pretty much across the board.
I have a friend who turned down an out of state job w/a relocation package 4 years ago. The same job just opened up again and he received another offer. He said the relocation package in 2006 was very generous, but in 2010 it was more along the lines of if you want the job, you figure out how to get here.
If there are plenty of qualified candidates already established in an area, why bother with the extra hassle involved in coordinating interviews, training, start dates, etc for someone who needs to make a move? And then there's always the question of whether that new hire will adapt to the area and stay put.
Good jobs aren't easy to come by right now. Is it worth holding out and hoping you eventually land something in a location you like; or do you want the security of a job, but in a location you don't like? Only you can answer that question. Good Luck!
It's a very tough economy. Welcome to the real world. You have to go where the work is.
If you have a target city and a target employment goal that's going to make it easier to achieve your goals. Hating Phoenix is not a very good reason to move. But you alone know what will make you happy, certainly not a bunch of anonymous posters on a chatboard!
Location: A circle of Hell so insidious, infernal and odious, Dante dared not map it
623 posts, read 1,225,215 times
Reputation: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl
I've lived in a lot of different cities. Many moons ago I was able to find jobs in DC and Pittburgh without being there. In more recent years I tried two more times and found it to be impossible. Just having an in-town address is not the only thing you need.
Yeah, some people were saying to wait until the economy rebounds but just settle for Phoenix until then. Advice I've been given is to use a local address so they don't toss out my resume as an out of state candidate. It's disheartening, but I've come across a lot of jobs that do read "local candidates only."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl
In my line of work it's now considered "normal" for employers to expect you to do spec work for them -- unpaid -- prior to a job offer. And most of the time you'll never get an offer because it isn't a real position, they just had a task they want to get done. Totally unethical but done all the time these days. All kinds of new interview styles are going on in this economy. A thread over on City-Data Las Vegas describes casinos "auditioning" potential coctail waitresses in competitive cattle-calls. In almost every city in the nation, employers are holding all the cards and they know it.
That's gross.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl
I live in Tucson and here are some of the unique Arizona experiences I've been through recently:
(1) Six weeks and multiple interviews, an actual offer made, salary negotiated, and a start date agreed to. Then the employer "unhires" me because the relative of a board member decided she wants the job.
(2) Two weeks of multiple interviews, a spec assignment agreed to where I make recommendations for how employer should address a client issue. Great praise for the results of my assignment (which took an entire week to do), then the employer doesn't answer my calls for three weeks. They finally invite me back to meet with the president who tells me my solution was so effective, they can implement it with in-house staff. "Thanks for the great work you did ... and no, we're not going to pay you for it."
(3) Job offered after only two interviews. Salary and start date negotiated. Then employer calls to say, "I know what we decided, but can you start Monday? I'm being sued and I want you to sit in on the pre-trial meetings with my lawyers." That activity not in ANY WAY relevant to the position I've been hired for, the lawsuit had never been mentioned during the interview process, and he didn't want to pay me for my pre-start-date "work" with his lawyer. Needless to say, I withdrew from that minefield.
That's even worse. I've learned to not trust employers here, which is one of the many reasons I want to leave too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl
So I ask you: how could you go through that if you were actually living in another city?
I fly free and have a very open schedule, so I can get to any city right now with very short notice and no expense to me... minus potential hotel rooms and eating out wherever I would be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azdr0710
gee, lots of unemployed people would LOVE to be in your "unfortunate" situation, I think......take the job and get back to work, as you want anyway.....millions would kill to live in Phoenix, too.....and why is a Phoenix address "unfortunate", anyway?......
am I missing something here??
Oh? I wouldn't say millions of people would want to live here. Many who do move here leave at some point. I should find out more tomorrow, but from what I know about this position it's waaaaay out of my field. I may be able to do it, regardless. The thing is, and this is something that really irks me about Phoenix, is that I believe it will leave a big black eye on my resume. It's not what I want to do ultimately and I would accrue experience in that field. That field happens to be customer service and I think it's pretty evident I'm not a people-person.The thing is that I've noticed about Phoenix is the abundance of retail, call center and customer service jobs. The unfortunate thing is that I have a niche field and when the dust settles, places like Los Angeles, New York and Chicago are going to be much better off than Phoenix because of their diverse economies. Hell, I've been looking for something in my field since 2007. According to the BLS, Arizona's unemployment rate was 3.7% then. My point is Phoenix never has had the jobs I'm looking for and likely never will. The reason a Phoenix address hurts me is because once I list a new employer on my resume I can't use my friends' addresses. Right now I can get away with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZDesertBrat
I expect that any address in any place a person hates to be would be "unfortunate" for them. I've never hated any place I've ever lived but can't say I was unhappy when I moved away. I think this person will be downright ecstatic to move!
Thank you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ritchie_az
Often times, the grass is greener over the septic tank. Sometimes, what's on the other side of the fense is a bull dog. A friend once said there's no better car then the one you own (metaphorically, this can be applied to all sorts of things).
I don't know (and don't care to know) why you hate Phoenix so much. But maybe it's better to look within and work through your problem (after all, you could end up hating where ever you move even more than Phoenix). If you really want a job you'll take a job where ever it is. (I'm not intending to sound harsh). Swallow your pride and move on.
Oh, and live life. Don't let your own feelings and judgements of Phoenix stop you from enjoying life in Phoenix. If you do that, you just might find that you actually like Phoenix.
Then again, maybe not....
Oh I know exactly what the problems are... but if you aren't interested in knowing I'll keep my peace. Trust me, my reasons are unique to Phoenix or are more pronounced in Phoenix than other cities. If this job isn't going to be detrimental on my resume, fine... I'll try hard to get it. My concern is moving out of here if I do get it. And I'll admit I did like Phoenix... but I had it in my head that this was home and always would be. Once I took those rose-colored glasses off I saw how awful this city really is. And really, there's not much to enjoy without income. For now I'm just working on "professional development" for whatever job I can get in the future.
Location: A circle of Hell so insidious, infernal and odious, Dante dared not map it
623 posts, read 1,225,215 times
Reputation: 473
[
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axiom
I think in the past whether an out of state address was a hinderance or not depended in large part on the type of job. But I also think Jukesgrrl is right about that changing in recent years, and pretty much across the board.
I have a friend who turned down an out of state job w/a relocation package 4 years ago. The same job just opened up again and he received another offer. He said the relocation package in 2006 was very generous, but in 2010 it was more along the lines of if you want the job, you figure out how to get here.
If there are plenty of qualified candidates already established in an area, why bother with the extra hassle involved in coordinating interviews, training, start dates, etc for someone who needs to make a move? And then there's always the question of whether that new hire will adapt to the area and stay put.
Good jobs aren't easy to come by right now. Is it worth holding out and hoping you eventually land something in a location you like; or do you want the security of a job, but in a location you don't like? Only you can answer that question. Good Luck!
I know one downside of finding a job out of state is that I would have to pay my own relocation expenses, but it would be totally worth it. Then I've also thought of what would happen if I did get a job somewhere out of state. It wouldn't be easy at first, but I could make it work. I said it to someone else in the post right before this one: I've had extreme difficulty finding good jobs in Phoenix even in better economic times. I've talked to some high-ranking people who have all recommended leaving Phoenix if I want to work in my field... otherwise, be prepared to settle for something else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts
It's a very tough economy. Welcome to the real world. You have to go where the work is.
If you have a target city and a target employment goal that's going to make it easier to achieve your goals. Hating Phoenix is not a very good reason to move. But you alone know what will make you happy, certainly not a bunch of anonymous posters on a chatboard!
Best of luck!
I guess my target city is LA, though I know their economy is awful now. That would just be the easiest to move to from here. Anyway, I didn't ask if moving will make me happy. I will move. It's just a matter of when.
Oh I know exactly what the problems are... but if you aren't interested in knowing I'll keep my peace.
I didn't say I wasn't interested in what Phoenix's problems are. I said I was not interested in why you hate Phoenix. Those are two completely different things. Every city has problems--every one. So once you move to where ever it is you'll end up moving to, you'll have plenty of time to discover all the probelms there. That does not mean you'll hate it. Just like I don't hate Phoenix despite the problems here. In fact, I love Phoenix.
Just be careful. It's true: the grass is greener over the septic tank. I learned this first hand. You said you "took off" your rose-colored glasses. Perhaps "rose-colored glasses" are nothing more than an attitude or outlook, and when you take off one you put on another.
Anyway, good luck with your career and your move whenever that happens.
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