It's official: This ain't no Bible Belt town! (Phoenix: house, public school)

[PinkElephant]

Were the tipping point

Originally Posted by CodyW

Not everyone shares that feeling, myself being one of those people.


Interesting list of cities, though. Some of them surprised me a bit. It was strange that Las Vegas was a few spots higher than Phoenix! Not something I would have expected.

[PinkElephant]

My teachers said in front of the class that they were not allowed to discuss God as a topic. At recess if we mentioned Sunday School, they might relate something in common or different! Mostly white, but immigrant kids from Mexico, Germany, Cuba, China etc were all quick and eager to be all American ASAP. I believe we memorized the 23rd Psalm in 3rd grade Sunday School. I liked knowing my teachers were fair and liked it even better when they shared a little about themselves.

Originally Posted by Howard Roark

Sorry, I attended three different elementary schools in the 1960s in California and Oregon. The first mostly white and some American Indian. The second all white, the third mostly white and some hispanic, even had one black student. In none of these three schools did the Bible ever get mentioned. Never. I liked it that way. I decided at age 7 I did not want to believe in God. Of course, you were in the South. You had your own perspective.

[PoppySead]

Thanks for posting this op. I think it's informative and a good add to this thread.

As an non believer I feel very comfortable living here regarding religion, even in cities with a high Mormon (never felt pushed by a Mormon, they are very polite) content and temples like Mesa and Gilbert. One of many great things about this city, IMO of course.

Off Topic: I must say as I am on my porch enjoying this wonderful summer morning, you gotta love it here!! Nothing like a Phoenix morning in my book.

[Sugah Ray]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Thanks. And most Catholics would not go along with the accurate in its principles part - for example the Biblical account of creation. It's been a while but as a kid growing up in Catholic schools, I lwas taught that the Old Testament is better seen as allegorical than literal. There's a lot of Catholics here, more than in the south that is for sure.

Count your blessings Arizona people...

Don't assume it is only evangelists who can be fundamentalist

I travel all over Florida and aside from Orlando and Miami, we seem to be a state of religious fundamentalists. It seems that cheap swamp land attracts these people.

We have a catholic town built in the middle of the Everglades called Ave Maria (built by the founder of Domino's pizza). They have their own radio station and the horrendous things I have heard there makes Evangelists look liberal. Yes most catholics are pretty liberal especially hispanic catholics but any religion is only a few steps away from fundamentalism.

There are places in Florida where it is very difficult(if not impossible) to listen to nonreligious radio stations. Imagine if you are fed that stuff 24/7.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by Sugah Ray

Count your blessings Arizona people...

Don't assume it is only evangelists who can be fundamentalist

I travel all over Florida and aside from Orlando and Miami, we seem to be a state of religious fundamentalists. It seems that cheap swamp land attracts these people.

We have a catholic town built in the middle of the Everglades called Ave Maria (built by the founder of Domino's pizza). They have their own radio station and the horrendous things I have heard there makes Evangelists look liberal. Yes most catholics are pretty liberal especially hispanic catholics but any religion is only a few steps away from fundamentalism.

There are places in Florida where it is very difficult(if not impossible) to listen to nonreligious radio stations. Imagine if you are fed that stuff 24/7.

True indeed, it's a mindset we simply do not tolerate here whether you are religious or not. That's just private business.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by PoppySead

Thanks for posting this op. I think it's informative and a good add to this thread.

As an non believer I feel very comfortable living here regarding religion, even in cities with a high Mormon (never felt pushed by a Mormon, they are very polite) content and temples like Mesa and Gilbert. One of many great things about this city, IMO of course.

I think this is a nice point you raised. I don't consider Mormons to be in the same category as Evangelicals in the southern United States. I agree they are religiously conservative. I can understand how some would even define them as being insular. However, they don't engage in the same aggressive proselytizing that southern Evangelicals engage in. I think many on this forum have not lived in the South and really can't make this distinction. But to illustrate what I'm referring to, this is what I experienced when I lived in Oklahoma, Texas and Tennessee.

(1) I was asked what church I attend on a constant basis
(2) I was told by some individuals that I need to be "saved."
(3) I was invited to attend someone's church on several occasions even though I made no inclination that I wanted to attend their church or that I shared their conservative beliefs.
(4) I would constantly hear references to Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam as being "devil worship"
(5) I heard numerous derogatory comments about homosexuals and homosexuality made openly.
(6) I heard numerous comments about Catholicism and that it was an evil religion because they couldn't communicate with God directly and that they worshipped popes and idols.
(7) My daughter was in school at the time and she told me how they openly prayed to Jesus during home games and other public school events.
(8) They would avoid teaching evolution and Darwin in public schools because it would offend too many of the families.

I've never experienced any of this in Arizona including rural areas. I've never had a Mormon ask me questions like this or openly make these same comments. So when I hear people say we are a part of the Bible Belt, it's beyond inaccurate. And this study confirms what I've always experienced here. I respect all religious beliefs including conservative Evangelical ones. However, I don't respect when groups try to impose their religion and beliefs on others. I feel like Mormons are very respectful

[Desertspiritsteve]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

...... I don't respect when groups try to impose their religion and beliefs on others. I feel like Mormons are very respectful

Oh, but they do. You see them riding bicycles all over town. They are young men in white shirts and dark pants. They wear name tags. They are missionaries. They want to share their religion with you. I would say that the only people who don't beat you over the head with their religion are Jews. Someone may have stenciled 666 on my curb because none of them waste their time with me anymore. I don't even find the Watch Tower on my front porch.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Desertspiritsteve

Oh, but they do. You see them riding bicycles all over town. They are young men in white shirts and dark pants. They wear name tags. They are missionaries. They want to share their religion with you. I would say that the only people who don't beat you over the head with their religion are Jews. Someone may have stenciled 666 on my curb because none of them waste their time with me anymore. I don't even find the Watch Tower on my front porch.

Sorry but wearing uniforms and riding bikes isn't the same as what I said above. I could care less what they do in their own time. I've never experienced them proselytizing in the way southern Evangelicals have. It's just not the same. The only people I've experienced proselytizing in the Valley are Jehovas Witnesses.

[ILikeEveryone]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

I think this is a nice point you raised. I don't consider Mormons to be in the same category as Evangelicals in the southern United States. I agree they are religiously conservative. I can understand how some would even define them as being insular. However, they don't engage in the same aggressive proselytizing that southern Evangelicals engage in. I think many on this forum have not lived in the South and really can't make this distinction. But to illustrate what I'm referring to, this is what I experienced when I lived in Oklahoma, Texas and Tennessee.

(1) I was asked what church I attend on a constant basis
(2) I was told by some individuals that I need to be "saved."
(3) I was invited to attend someone's church on several occasions even though I made no inclination that I wanted to attend their church or that I shared their conservative beliefs.
(4) I would constantly hear references to Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam as being "devil worship"
(5) I heard numerous derogatory comments about homosexuals and homosexuality made openly.
(6) I heard numerous comments about Catholicism and that it was an evil religion because they couldn't communicate with God directly and that they worshipped popes and idols.
(7) My daughter was in school at the time and she told me how they openly prayed to Jesus during home games and other public school events.
(8) They would avoid teaching evolution and Darwin in public schools because it would offend too many of the families.

I've never experienced any of this in Arizona including rural areas. I've never had a Mormon ask me questions like this or openly make these same comments. So when I hear people say we are a part of the Bible Belt, it's beyond inaccurate. And this study confirms what I've always experienced here. I respect all religious beliefs including conservative Evangelical ones. However, I don't respect when groups try to impose their religion and beliefs on others. I feel like Mormons are very respectful

Yes to everything AZRiverFan has posted above. I live in the Southeast now. I actually have a woman at work who will say to me from time to time, "ILE (me) needs Jesus." And because it is well known that I cannot hear well on the right side, I will respond with, "Cheezits?! Who has Cheezits?" I heard her perfectly the first time.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by ILikeEveryone

Yes to everything AZRiverFan has posted above. I live in the Southeast now. I actually have a woman at work who will say to me from time to time, "ILE (me) needs Jesus." And because it is well known that I cannot hear well on the right side, I will respond with, "Cheezits?! Who has Cheezits?" I heard her perfectly the first time.

The naysayers on this thread haven't experienced what a true Evangelical environment is like and have no clue. What they primarily fail to understand is that it goes beyond religion, it's part of their culture. You don't have that here. I mean they would feel threatened by even the most benign element like vegetarianism. If you didn't eat meat there, they would get upset and say things like "God commanded us to eat the animals and said they were ours" Like I said, it's part of their culture. In certain parts, they called rock/pop music "devil music" and they couldn't host dances or prohibited dancing. People on this thread have no clue what a real Bible Belt city feels like.

I still remember my daughter bringing home a form asking me to sign it allowing her to be present for sex education to be taught in her biology class. If the parents didn't approve, the students could go to a study hall and not be present for class then. Here, every kid would have to learn basic anatomy and physiology of the male and female reproductive system.