Phoenix tax hike: $30 billion, 30 year light rail funding (Scottsdale, Chandler: college, sales tax)

[swbrotha100]

If/when the light rail is extended in Phoenix, I hope the line to Metrocenter gets done first. It makes the most sense to me.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

The increase is about $.30 per $100 spent so $.003 per dollar which is not even noticeable. I know a lot of people have been hating on the light rail, but it has done a lot for our city. Supposedly millenials demand better public transit. It helps attract big events, conventions and more. Also, look at all the development that sprung up along the light rail. It did help gentrify a lot of trashy areas. I don't mind spending the money as long as they can show the money will only go to transportation.

EDIT...I got my $.30 figure from ABC15 this morning, the article attached says $.70 which is it?????
Phoenix to vote on sales tax increase for transportation - ABC15 Arizona

It's a waste-o-rama in my book. Based on the figures I've seen, it benefits a small amount of people on the back of the majority of taxpayers who don't use it.

So please, since you don't mind spending your tax dollars on what sounds like lots of money to move very few people, feel free to pay my share too, ok?

As the video discusses, at the very least, I hope they install barriers/up enforcement to get people to pay beyond the honor system:

Light Rail: The real cost for taxpayers - FOX 13 News

I wasn't aware they use the honor system to collect fares for the most part.

Free Prius anyone?

"If this new sales tax is approved, it would raise $17.5 billion. For that amount of money, you could easily buy a brand new Toyota Prius for every household in Phoenix."

Kind of puts it all in perspective the cost of this thing.

[Wally Sconce]

Originally Posted by stevek64

It's a waste-o-rama in my book. Based on the figures I've seen, it benefits a small amount of people on the back of the majority of taxpayers who don't use it.

So please, since you don't mind spending your tax dollars on what sounds like lots of money to move very few people, feel free to pay my share too, ok?

As the video discusses, at the very least, I hope they install barriers/up enforcement to get people to pay beyond the honor system:

Light Rail: The real cost for taxpayers - FOX 13 News

I wasn't aware they use the honor system to collect fares for the most part.

Free Prius anyone?

"If this new sales tax is approved, it would raise $17.5 billion. For that amount of money, you could easily buy a brand new Toyota Prius for every household in Phoenix."

Kind of puts it all in perspective the cost of this thing.

If the tax was allocated strictly for LRT , your argument would be valid. However the tax is to go to the whole public transportation system..ie buses.
Phoenix is probably the only major city that has areas built 10 years ago with zero bus service. The closest bus serviced to me is 5 miles away. We have bus stops but no buses..lol.


The honor system is the norm in many cities, Transit cops run checks on the LRT and if you don't have a valid ticket, your fare is now 200 bucks!...the fines more then make up for the fare evaders.

[Tall Traveler]

I fully support it and would be willing to pay some taxes to support it...it will improve your transportation, increase your housing values, and in general improve life in the area...YES

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by stevek64

I wasn't aware they use the honor system to collect fares for the most part.

Proof of payment systems are the norm in the majority of U.S. cities that have rail transit. Turnstiles are used only in the minority of U.S. cities that rely on heavy rail (subway or elevated) and therefore have more extensive station infrastructure. When there are enough fare checks by security personnel, proof of payment can work quite well because the small amount of fare evasion that remains is less costly than hardening stations. From what I see on my daily commute via light rail, actual fare evasion is low. When security personnel board the train, most passengers are able to produce valid tickets or transit passes. If one or two cannot, they are told to get off at the next station or fined in the case of repeat offenders.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by swbrotha100

If/when the light rail is extended in Phoenix, I hope the line to Metrocenter gets done first. It makes the most sense to me.

I know there is a planned extension further east to Gilbert Road in Mesa. In my dream system the existing route would go from Metrocenter all the way to Superstition Springs and would be known as the Red Line. At Superstition Springs there would be connections with the Pink Line (mentioned earlier in the thread) and the Purple Line (which would serve Baseline all the way from 75th Avenue to Superstition Springs).

[jdahunt]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Proof of payment systems are the norm in the majority of U.S. cities that have rail transit. Turnstiles are used only in the minority of U.S. cities that rely on heavy rail (subway or elevated) and therefore have more extensive station infrastructure. When there are enough fare checks by security personnel, proof of payment can work quite well because the small amount of fare evasion that remains is less costly than hardening stations. From what I see on my daily commute via light rail, actual fare evasion is low. When security personnel board the train, most passengers are able to produce valid tickets or transit passes. If one or two cannot, they are told to get off at the next station or fined in the case of repeat offenders.

Maybe that is why most are so underfunded.....how do you keep the riff raff out if they can just walk in and occupy spaces?

On my trip to Phoenix last weekend we spent a few days in San Diego .....thought their rail was a joke....very few riders and constantly stopping vehicle traffic around town.....secondly the homeless problem is huge....most of those I saw should be institutionalized someplace, wouldn't want to put my family as risk...last trip for me to San Diego.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

The increase is about $.30 per $100 spent so $.003 per dollar which is not even noticeable. I know a lot of people have been hating on the light rail, but it has done a lot for our city. Supposedly millenials demand better public transit. It helps attract big events, conventions and more. Also, look at all the development that sprung up along the light rail. It did help gentrify a lot of trashy areas. I don't mind spending the money as long as they can show the money will only go to transportation.

EDIT...I got my $.30 figure from ABC15 this morning, the article attached says $.70 which is it?????
Phoenix to vote on sales tax increase for transportation - ABC15 Arizona

What kind of development was sparked by light rail? None that I have seen. Most areas along the light rail are still plagued by abandoned buildings, vacant lots, and very little (if any) improvement. Even though I support light rail and better transportation, I will vote NO on this because we already voted in 2004 to expand light rail, and we have seen very little result from that ... so this is like double taxation.

[Bruce Jackpot]

What people often forget to point out that light rail is a public safety investment. Less cars on the roads=less accidents. Since LRT currently goes past many bars/restaurants downtown and by Mill Ave Tempe late at night it surely gets potential drunk or even slightly impaired (but legal) drivers off the roads. Just another alternative to a taxi that is cheap and efficient.

This could save countless innocent peoples lives over the years. LRT is great for public safety. Just getting fewer cars off the road, period, will result in less accidents, injuries, and deaths. Oh and of course less traffic .

Whether you choose to use LRT or not, you should see overall public safety benefit. Especially if it runs in an area you live or commute to. Downtown traffic would go up without LRT and that affects everyone who lives, works, or plays downtown.

[corydon]

Drunks make the decision to drive a car, period.
And as for going to the mall by light rail.... Sure, carrying all your stuff to the platform, than to your house.. I don't think so.....
Public transportation is great when people live in close quarters, not in a city like Phoenix, it is not a great investment. If it was, wall street would jump on it.