Dog Friendly restaurants Pros and Cons (best, business, dining)

[Bungle]

Originally Posted by stevek64

As for the liability being with the "dumb" animal, I'd be willing to bet if a "dumb" kid, taught by "dumb" parents, let their kid run towards a dog 20 feet away and gets bit, those "dumb" parents would be responsible because they didn't control their "dumb" kid.

The dog owner wouldn't be liable. The law on dog bites states a dog owner may be found not liable for a bite if it was found to be provoked. An unattended 3 year old running around a dog friendly patio sticking it's hands in a dog's face would fall under this.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by Bungle

My reasonable expectation is on the parents watching and handling their child. If that's not an option than they should not be out in public.

Impeccably logical.

It's ironic that the people complaining about dogs shouldn't be here/there because of certain behavior seem to think their kids are the center of the universe and can act/are let to act in any manner and somehow in the end, it's the dogs fault. Does personal/parental responsibility exist anymore?

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by Bungle

Obviously you don't with yours but I can easily tell what my dog is thinking and his opinion on a situation is. Just because he can't speak directly to me doesn't mean he can't visually communicate with cues from the way his ears perk up, how his tail is, his eyes...etc. I'm very in tune with him and pay attention to everything he does when in public or in our home.

Yeah ok,
This is what I see as the issue with a few dog owners. In reality you can get a feel for what your pet likes or dislikes but you can not tell what they think, nor get their opinion on matters. That's why we have pet problems, they aren't human you should respect what they are and stop trying to make them something they are not. It's not good for them or us. They are dogs, not any different than cows, pigs or horses which we eat. Just because you made a pet out of it doesn't mean you can talk to it.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by stevek64

Impeccably logical.

It's ironic that the people complaining about dogs shouldn't be here/there because of certain behavior seem to think their kids are the center of the universe and can act/are let to act in any manner and somehow in the end, it's the dogs fault. Does personal/parental responsibility exist anymore?

Nope, we just know they are human. We also know dogs aren't. A lot of parents already do what you suggest, and all I ask is that you do the same. Teach your dog not to bite people who approach it. It's you who are unwilling to do this, not the kids parents. It's not totally up to the parents to keep their kids away from your dog and you get to ignore the fact your dog is aggressive, it's up to both the parents and dog owners to make a safe environment in public places.
Mistakes should be kept to small amounts, kids will make mistakes they aren't mature. When your dog pees on the carpet as a puppy you make allowances. Same with human kids. Your dog is not a kid, if it's agressive that's a different story altogether. If you own an aggressive animal you shouldn't bring it out and invite others to approach it because that's what you're doing.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by PoppySead

Colorful or not, the animal is actually dumb compared to a human. Fact. Or we'd be hearing from them on here right now. That's different than a baby or child. We expect our young to be under developed due to their age. Some catch on quicker than others, some just have more anxiety in general. It's not a dogs world, we took them out of their world and brought them into ours. They can bite in their world, it's accepted.

A lot of leashed dogs have occupied owners and don't notice their dog until it's too late as well. But, they own their dog, the dog is an animal in a public space. Caution on their part is expected. The child isn't hurting the animal, merely approaching it. Doesn't warrant a bite to the face. That is an unstable, afraid animal and isn't fit for the public.

I get people wanting the companion life, but it takes work. They can research and avoid most of these issues. If they don't I won't appreciate having it forced on me to adjust to their lazy approach to dog ownership. Why should I? Kids get hurt by dogs all the time, seriously injured.

Like the above poster said, if it were a gun it would be the gun owners fault and the gun but not the kid. Why not the same for the dog? Because people attach human feelings to their animals, that's why. Big mistake, IMO.

Nature and animals are actually smarter than we/you might think. Watch some nature shows on lifeforms like plants and how they communicate and it's actually quite amazing/brilliant how they interact. Perhaps its humans that are kind of dumb not to be able to cue in on their way of communicating?

But I digress.....

Don't misunderstand my point as of course animal owners have responsibility. Of course they do and when we owned dogs, we always took that seriously. If we have a dog and are walking them and it runs lose, lunges towards a person, it's our fault. 100%. If we tell a person our dog is friendly and it bites them and the person didn't provoke anything on them, I'm sure that would be our fault too. Got it. Fair and square. My point in the previous point was the example of a 2-3 year old(their parents actually) has some or all of their own responsibility on their end too, ie to be careful in approaching dogs, not running towards them, not approaching a dog from their tail area, etc. And in our personal experience over many years with dogs, we've found most kids, even very young 2-3 year olds, were smart enough to know how to approach our dogs as they were brought up by parents who taught them well. And of course kids will cut up/get excited/forget what they were taught at that age.....and that's where the parent comes in to take control of their kid. It's a 2 way street in my view but it worries me some posts on this thread seem to think parental responsibility doesn't apply to their kids.

Originally Posted by PoppySead

it's up to both the parents and dog owners to make a safe environment in public places.

Couldn't agree more.

[Bungle]

Originally Posted by PoppySead

Yeah ok,
This is what I see as the issue with a few dog owners. In reality you can get a feel for what your pet likes or dislikes but you can not tell what they think, nor get their opinion on matters. That's why we have pet problems, they aren't human you should respect what they are and stop trying to make them something they are not. It's not good for them or us. They are dogs, not any different than cows, pigs or horses which we eat. Just because you made a pet out of it doesn't mean you can talk to it.

Sorry but it goes way beyond knowing simply what he likes and doesn't like. Any true dog owner knows what I'm talking about and I wish some day you could actually feel that connection for yourself. I'm very much aware my dog is not human. Also, dogs are very different from cows and horses...you are right about pigs though who are also very intelligent creatures.

[Bungle]

Originally Posted by PoppySead

it's up to both the parents and dog owners to make a safe environment in public places.

Finally you get it.

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by Bungle

Sorry but it goes way beyond knowing simply what he likes and doesn't like. Any true dog owner knows what I'm talking about and I wish some day you could actually feel that connection for yourself. I'm very much aware my dog is not human. Also, dogs are very different from cows and horses...you are right about pigs though who are also very intelligent creatures.

I have watched all those shows as well Bungle, and I own two munchkin cats I treat like infants and love to death, talk to and spoil. I had a dog throughout childhood I flew back to town to see on it's death bed after I left home because it was like my best bud. I get it. I thought we had a special connection.


...... but I did know I couldn't influence certain behaviors in my pet. Just like humans some animals have issues. If we could discuss them we could find treatment but we cannot. You can just look for signs of behavior and guess. If your dog snaps at people in public, barks at people walking by then you have an agression issue. I don't agree on taking them to all the public places and just relying on the public to be well disciplined when approaching your pet. They see it out and they will assume if it's out in public it's ok to pet it. It's wishful thinking everyone will cautiously approach your animal and ask you about it.

Actually, (side note) Killer Whales and Dolphins are very intelligent but we lock them up in Sea Zoos for enjoyment and let them injure and kill trainers with no experience for profit and enjoyment, I degress. I see agressive dog owners doing the same....thinking they aren't responsible for this behavior because they enjoy the outing. In my opinion they are, and they can't reason with a dog or the dog would clearly get the picture. We are different in expected behavior. A good dog owner usually understands a dogs limits compared to human in understanding. Those that don't end up with problem pets.

Aggressive dogs get injured when handled irresponsibly. They will get beat, shot, put down all because you wanted to bring them around public spaces. Other dogs get injured by them, and so do humans. It's not the responsible thing to do. Dog parks, dog friendly places to eat, parks, etc. are for dogs who can handle the public, and I'll stick to this opinion without a doubt. No need to carry this on. I'll neve agree on this one. Sorry about that. I can see you are firm on your end as well so we will just have to agree to disagree and think of each other as the stupid one. lol

[PoppySead]

Originally Posted by Bungle

Finally you get it.

I said this in response to a few saying it was up to the parents only. That it was bad parenting and noting nothing about how bad owner practices played into it.

This has been my stance the whole time. Finally, you get it. It takes both, not just the parent. Do me a favor, if your dog is aggressive and you have to take it out for fun despite, make the sign. You might save a face or two.

[asufan]

LOL these over the top dog lovers still think the law is on their side when their personal property dog harms a human