Goodbye, Coyotes? (Phoenix, Mesa, Glendale: 2014, big house, employment)

[Bondurant]

I love hockey but I hate welfare for wealthy people to conduct private enterprise. This is a perfect example of why cities should not get involved with sports. Glendale's deal with IceArizona was bad for Glendale. It cost a few people their jobs on the city council as well. There might be more to the story and we'll have to see what happens in litigation. My feeling, and that of some familiar with the situation, think this is an effort to force IceArizona into renegotiation.

Ownership could call their bluff and accept the deal and bolt to Quebec City or Seattle. They could also try to make an effort to return to United Airways Center. By most accounts I've read from legal analysts, the Coyotes will be legally entitled to at least one more season at Gila River.

[ajonesaz]

Ever since I heard Glendale's mayor whining during the super bowl, I have not liked him. Seems like he has a personal vendetta against everything his predecessor did. He also could smile once in a while.

I knew the Coyotes would fail as soon as they announced they were moving to Glendale, I would go to games if it were a little closer.

Suns want a new stadium, maybe they could get together with the coyotes and build a dual use stadium. Maybe Coyotes could take over US Airways (or whatever its called these days).

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

Ever since I heard Glendale's mayor whining during the super bowl, I have not liked him. Seems like he has a personal vendetta against everything his predecessor did. He also could smile once in a while.

I knew the Coyotes would fail as soon as they announced they were moving to Glendale, I would go to games if it were a little closer.

Suns want a new stadium, maybe they could get together with the coyotes and build a dual use stadium. Maybe Coyotes could take over US Airways (or whatever its called these days).

downtown would not be much better with the lousy product on the ice. The Suns have among the worst attendance in the NBA, the Dbacks games are ghost towns by the end of each disappointing season. And what is more convenient to you is less convenient to the hordes of Canadians and midwesterners who have flocked to Surprise, Sun Cities and the cheap housing in the far west valley in the past 10 years and have both time and money to go to games. My two Canuck neighbors never miss a game. One of the reasons they bought in this area was the ease at getting to hockey. They're gone for the summer, but I bet they are shocked at this development. They would probably still go downtown being it is about the same travel time, but I doubt they would go to Scottsdale unless their home team was playing. In any case, the team is not going to go anywhere else in the metro. It's Glendale or goodbye. The owners never had any intention of staying beyond how long it took to fleece the taxpayers of Glendale. The council action pulled the plug on them and just speeds that day.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

Suns want a new stadium, maybe they could get together with the coyotes and build a dual use stadium.

Suns want a new stadium, maybe they could get together with the coyotes and get taxpayers to build a dual use stadium.

There, fixed it for ya.

[Bungle]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

Suns want a new stadium, maybe they could get together with the coyotes and get taxpayers to build a dual use stadium.

There, fixed it for ya.

As a resident of Phoenix, if they decide to build a new dual use stadium downtown and raise my taxes I wouldn't care. I'd support it.

[stevek64]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

Suns want a new stadium, maybe they could get together with the coyotes and get taxpayers to build a dual use stadium.

There, fixed it for ya.

Suns want a new stadium, maybe they could get together with the coyotes and a specific list of taxpayers who are ok with chipping in to build the dual use stadium. The rest of taxpayers who don't want to chip in will be exempt.

I think we are getting even closer to the ideal.

[phx1205]

Originally Posted by brian571

The way I see it, Glendale has two pretty good arguments that the team breached the contract. The City Attorney that left was, by most accounts, still under contract with Glendale while also working with the Coyotes when the deal was signed. Second, the team did not complete their financial audit on time and did not provide the city with the information as required by the contract. IIRC, they are still waiting for it and it was due in November.

The attorney in question here may have been involved in drafting the legal document, but I doubt he was the one that came up with the $15million annual payment for the arena management. I would think that the city's bean counters were the ones that agreed that was a number they were comfortable with. So this really seems like the city said, let's find a way to get out of this now that we don't like the numbers and this state statute seems like the perfect way to get out.

They played downtown at US Airways Center before moving out to Glendale. They say that arena is not ideal for hockey, but I would think it can be done for a couple years until they can get a new downtown Phoenix arena built for both Suns and Coyotes.

Also sounds like the audit piece is not all attributed to the Coyotes. Based on this article, it sounds more disfunction on Glendale's part on getting the audit done. Glendale staffer resigns over arena audit

Move them back downtown.

[asufan]

Fear not, hockey fans. ASU hockey will become the only school in the PAC 12 and first in the Southwestern US with Division 1 hockey in 2016, after dominating in club hockey recently and receiving a large cash donation. New hockey or hockey/basketball arena is in the works near campus. Perfect timing

[R_Cowgirl]

Originally Posted by stevek64

I agree.

And I don't think taxpayers should be involved in the stadium building business.

Taxpayers on the hook for stadium costs

AMEN! Look where it got them! Two stadiums close to each other and a ghost town of businesses around them that only wake up during events.

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

Yep these private profit-public debt stadium schemes always make me cringe.
Who do you think will get the crap end of the stick: taxpayers repped by incompetent pols or businessmen backed by billions (that they don't spend- never touch the principal)?

I'll tell you who else gets hit: all the vendors who do business at the arenas when they have Expos. You have to purchase a full Glendale Sales Tax license (this is beyond any Phoenix or AZ license) and they come around like gestapo checking every single vendor. It ain't cheap. You know a city is flailing when they nickel and dime every little thing. I know many vendors who simply won't do an Expo in Glendale anymore. It's like trying to do business in California. Which, when you think about it, is probably where that City Council and Mayor came from!!!

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

The reasons for terminating this contract is complete b.s. on Glendale's part. They basically found a technicality and exploited it. But as they say "honor among thieves" What did you expect. That council is a joke. The same mayor who whined about not getting free Super Bowl tickets is the same fat cat (literally) who accepts free tickets to Coyotes games and sits in their suite.

That being said, you can't blame Glendale. The team is going to leave in 5 years anyway. Glendale knows this. Glendale and the Coyotes continue to lose more money each year which will give the Coyotes the right to relocate in 5 years. Glendale is just cutting their losses and expediting the inevitable. And it's good strategy on Glendale's part. Either renegotiate to better terms or leave. They are losing them anyway in 5 years so they might as well try to get a better deal out of it. I don't think the Coyotes will waste millions in legal fees and experience even more losses with the hope that they will keep the team in Glendale for 3 more years. They will come to their senses and just leave. In any other business model, where are you allowed to produce a bad product and expect sales? Yet in sports, fans are supposed to showed unwavering loyalty while owners are not; and ironically enough the people who demand this absurdity are the fans themselves.

The Coyotes management has been horrible. They have not invested in the team and have made poor decisions. The team is not fun to watch. They have no offense. And I don't see that changing in the near future. You can't put a bad product for display and expect people to show just out of "fanship" or whatever you want to call it. I think that is the dumbest idea in sports. Owners should not be allowed to be cheap and then expect sell out games because "fans should be loyal" It doesn't work like that. If you want people to show up to games then it's your responsibility to take some risk, spend some money and put a good product on the ice. They have not done that and they won't do that.

Finally, let's call a spade a spade. Professional sports does not work in the West Side. Football only works because it's played on Sundays and it's the most popular sport in the country. If you put the Suns, or D-backs there, no one would show up for those games either. People are simply not going to sit for over an hour in rush hour to attend a hockey game. It's simply too far. I know a lot of people who love hockey and they all say the same thing: Too Far!! 3/4 of the population of the Valley lives in the Central and PROXIMAL East Valley (Tempe, Scottsdale, West Chandler, West Mesa). So even if the team were to magically improve their roster and be more fun to watch, they will still struggle to sell regular season seats. Sure, everyone will make an exception and show up for the playoffs but not a regular season game.

Would hockey work in Phoenix? Yes, it would if the location and team ownership was proper. If it was in a proper location where people in the Central and Proximal East Valley would have access, they would not struggle to sell seats. If there was a stadium near Talking Stick in Scottsdale or somewhere in Tempe, it would work. If you put it n the Far East Valley (Gilbert, East Chandler, East Mesa) or South (Ocotillo), it would struggle as well.

At this point, let them leave. They were going to leave anyway. I would rather start over one day and get a new team and stadium in a proper location. It might take 10-20 years but that's probably better than dealing with this mess.

Well said. Except now what will they do with these arenas? That Gila River arena is a monster on the second level. I fly airplanes and I found myself with a fear of heights walking in to the second floor to find my seat! How the heck is that even built to code??? It's a miserable place to sit. We went to a concert there. Beyond the dizzying seating arrangement, the sound sucked. If they dump the Coyotes, they'd better have another plan in mind.

So HAPPY I didn't buy in Glendale! Too bad, it has a nice sense of place in the old town part. These Space Ships they landed on prime property make Glendale into a whole 'nother place. I feel sorry for the taxpayers there.

OH - and NOW they want to saddle the entire city with billions in debt to extend the light rail that direction (yah, sure, it will only be $549 million. Sure.) Hey - let's pile on MORE debt during a recession. Yay! Remember this? Phoenix passes $30 billion transportation plan
FWIW - if you search on this rail extension, you'll see that the 2013 estimates were $300 million for Glendale. Now they are $549 million. What will they be tomorrow? Poor Glendale!

Maybe they can turn the Gila River Arena into low income housing for aliens (the martian kind, I mean) ... /sarc

[pbenjamin]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

downtown would not be much better with the lousy product on the ice. The Suns have among the worst attendance in the NBA, the Dbacks games are ghost towns by the end of each disappointing season.

That's not true, at least not the way you are telling it. The last time the team made the playoffs was 2011, and the average attendance was 25,993. That's not great, admittedly. Last year, which was the worst (on the field) in recent memory, averaged 25,602, hardly any different at all. (If you remove the two "home" games played in Australia from the equation they averaged 25,283.) And the attendance at the end of the season was not noticeably different than the attendance at mid-season.

Arizona Diamondbacks Attendance, Stadiums, and Park Factors | Baseball-Reference.com

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