Coyotes Moving From Glendale: Advanced talks with Phoenix or ASU (Tempe: lease, credit)

[Jukesgrrl]

Originally Posted by Bondurant

Tax payers should never fund private enterprise. This should go before the voters and I will dutifully vote against it.

Here's a pertinent story:

The citizens of Pittsburgh, PA, voted soundly against closing Three Rivers Stadium (a dual-purpose facility) and having separate facilities built for baseball's Pirates and football's Steelers. Guess what. They now have Heinz Field and PNC Park. Here's the most amazing part. THEY LOVE IT. They voted against it, but ask them now and they will deny their opposition and tell you how great their two facilities are (which is true, they are among the best in the country and they have been a huge economic boon to the City of Pittsburgh).

One of the reasons we elect people to represent us in government is so that they can study issues closer and make good decisions not based on knee-jerk themes like "all tax cuts are good." What's good for a state in the long run is quite often not obvious to a public with short-sighted views and limited understanding of economics.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by asufan

One thing that you never take into account when you make your dream scenarios whether it be about light rail, bus transit or stadium locations is MONEY. The reason the Coyotes are looking to partner with ASU or the Suns is to save costs on construction, I doubt a deal with either of these two would work in Mesa. They are considering ASU because ASU has land and has a need and plans for a hockey arena (albeit not as large as the Coyote's need), they also have some private donors and a facilities district, so partnering with ASU is worth exploring. With the Suns they are looking to split costs but I assume raising the money mostly through taxes, and the most centralized location. With Mesa, you have no other team to share the facility with, no free land that I know of and no private donors stepping in. You may as well throw out any other corner of the valley, it's about as feasible as Mesa IMO.

Note that you always have to have a backup plan. What will happen if the Coyotes cannot reach a deal with the City of Phoenix and/or ASU? I think a Riverview location would be the third best choice if any deal fails with the City of Phoenix and ASU.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

Note that you always have to have a backup plan. What will happen if the Coyotes cannot reach a deal with the City of Phoenix and/or ASU? I think a Riverview location would be the third best choice if any deal fails with the City of Phoenix and ASU.

You are forgetting the money again. Where will that come from? I don't see the city of Mesa as being interested in paying for it.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by new2colo

As a long time Arizonan, you should know this routine well enough now. Just because someone says they're looking actively at new sites for development doesn't mean that anything is actually going to get built. Ever. USA Basketball was actively looking to develop on ASU's campus three years ago and look at what's there now. Nothing. People got excited about the observation tower in Phoenix and that developer was in active talks with the city. Look at what's there now. Nothing. As far as I'm concerned, nothing is official until a ribbon is cut on a fully constructed, new arena.

I see no reason to be negative towards the state or city, yes projects fall through, they fall through everywhere.

I have reason to believe that the Coyotes are leaving Glendale, it seems apparent, It is also reasonable that other cities in the metro will want this team in their vicinity, I think most recognize the economic value a well placed professional sports franchise can have on an area. The Coyotes, despite their ridiculous location, have managed to play a large part in keeping the Entertainment District of the Farmers going decently I don't see why Tempe or Phoenix wouldn't do everything in their power to make it happen. We know Tempe has the money and we know Phoenix can come up with the money and has 3 other professional sports teams, two of which are going to be looking for a new stadium in the near future and could nip the moving to Scottsdale thing in the bud by making a reasonable bid to have a new stadium host three franchises (Suns, Mercury, Coyotes) in a Downtown location.

It also seems apparent that they aren't going to go to Vegas or Seattle. The bidding price will be low, the Coyotes dont have a ton of leverage to work with since they are being forced out of their current arena.

[take57]

Originally Posted by new2colo

As a long time Arizonan, you should know this routine well enough now. Just because someone says they're looking actively at new sites for development doesn't mean that anything is actually going to get built. Ever. USA Basketball was actively looking to develop on ASU's campus three years ago and look at what's there now. Nothing. People got excited about the observation tower in Phoenix and that developer was in active talks with the city. Look at what's there now. Nothing. As far as I'm concerned, nothing is official until a ribbon is cut on a fully constructed, new arena.

I think you're not too far off. I'd go so far as to say if there are any talks they are simply to take the temperature of what entity or municipality is going to offer the least path of resistance.
Understand with metaphysical certitude that where they play is a spreadsheet decision.

[cjseliga]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

Note that you always have to have a backup plan. What will happen if the Coyotes cannot reach a deal with the City of Phoenix and/or ASU? I think a Riverview location would be the third best choice if any deal fails with the City of Phoenix and ASU.

Riverview/Mesa would be a distant 4th option. Like observer53 said, it comes down to money and Mesa just spent what $99 million on the Sloan Park Complex for the Cubs? The third option would be the Salt River Reservation (101/Indian Bend), not the best location, but they have the money and the land, plus all those players that live in Scottsdale would love that.

Ideally the best spot, like pretty much everybody has been saying, is downtown. I know they have thrown around tearing down the South Building in the Convention Center Complex, but what somewhere just south of the arena now, between Jackson and Lincoln? It would be a shame if the Suns and Coyotes couldn't work something out to share a new arena downtown, but when you have two different owners, it's not always easy.

[Jukesgrrl]

Originally Posted by observer53

You are forgetting the money again. Where will that come from? I don't see the city of Mesa as being interested in paying for it.

Maybe not, since they just spent a ton on the Chicago Cubs spring training facility. BUT that project is a good example of a sports investment benefiting a community in many ways. I needed a hotel room in suburban Phoenix last March and I could NOT get one. Every mid-priced hotel, and even all the Airbnb places, all sold out for weeks at a time. Why? Tourists in town for spring training, spending money all over Mesa, Gilbert, Chandler, and Tempe.

[sloguy1496]

Originally Posted by cjseliga

I know they have thrown around tearing down the South Building in the Convention Center Complex, but what somewhere just south of the arena now, between Jackson and Lincoln?

A lot of that area is historical and contains a large collection of the last remaining well preserved historic buildings in the downtown area. Probably wouldn't find much support for the destruction of that area.

The crucial component to this project, I believe, is light rail access. That rules out Mesa Riverview or 101/Indian Bend.

Priority is of course Downtown Phoenix, but the other option of Tempe is one that I'd really like to see the teams explore further.

[sargeant79]

Originally Posted by ShampooBanana

You're right that Sky Harbor is aboiut the geographic center of the Valley, but the difference in distance between there and downtown Phoenix versus there and Riverview is negligible. Riverview is about 3-4 miles further from Sky Harbor.

And at least 20 minutes further in rush hour traffic if you're coming from the city or the west valley and trying to get to a game on a weeknight. And no one is talking about putting a stadium at Sky Harbor, just calling out that that's where the geographic center of the valley lies and that Mesa is not centrally located in any way.

Originally Posted by asufan

If being close to Sky Harbor is the best location, Downtown Tempe is adjacent to the airport and is a faster light rail ride to the airport stop, so that would be the best choice. I still agree Downtown Phoenix is the best choice, but it is further from the airport than Tempe.

Proximity to the airport itself doesn't have anything to do with it other than pinpointing a geographic center, but I agree that downtown Tempe wouldn't be a terrible choice, especially with the public transportation options. Further east from that starts to alienate people in Phoenix and the West Valley, just like the current Glendale location alienates people in the East Valley today.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Jukesgrrl

Maybe not, since they just spent a ton on the Chicago Cubs spring training facility. BUT that project is a good example of a sports investment benefiting a community in many ways. I needed a hotel room in suburban Phoenix last March and I could NOT get one. Every mid-priced hotel, and even all the Airbnb places, all sold out for weeks at a time. Why? Tourists in town for spring training, spending money all over Mesa, Gilbert, Chandler, and Tempe.

Spring training is an entirely different animal, comparing apples and oranges. Tourists don't come to town in droves and stay for weeks to see the Coyotes, or the Suns, for that matter. Spring training, by contrast, is a tourism institution here in the Valley. The arena has to go where it can get paid for, and will depend on locals, not tourists, to fill the seats.