Islamic terrorism in Phoenix

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by AZ_Rookie

^^^ (response to two posts above)

with all due respect - more gun laws mean absolutely nothing.

As far as I know, cocain and heroine are illegal - yet anyone that wants it can (and does) get it. If magically all firearms dissappeared in the US, it would not stop criminals or terrorist from getting them. Anyone that thinks otherwise is fooling themselves with the "sensible gun laws" mantra.

Let me be clear, current laws need to be acted upon (and yes, that entails DOJ, DHS, TSA, FBI getting their chit together) and use existing laws/resources to make a difference. Adding more restrictions and BS to the myriad of existing laws is nothing more than fluff to make the emotional reactions feel better.

Apples and oranges: drugs are much easier to conceal and are far more plentiful in supply. Guns and weapons are completely differently particularly AR 15's. It's not so easy to get your hands on an AR 15.

Also, if you are an honest lawful citizen, you don't have anything to worry about. If you want to buy an AR 15, submit yourself to a thorough background check. I think the problem is people with shady backgrounds want these weapons and they don't want to submit to a background check knowing they will be rejected. And the gun suppliers know this as well hence the reason they don't want background checks.

If it makes it safer for everyone, why on earth would you not want more exhaustive background checks...unless of course you have something to hide and you don't want to be rejected for your DUI or time in jail or psych profile etc. That is the REAL reason people don't favor background checks. They know they won't pass. Have you guys ever been to a gun show? It looks like gang central. Once you see that, you understand why they don't want background checks. Half those people wouldn't pass. LOL

I don't have a problem with AR 15's being sold, but, the truth is it does not belong in the hands of most people.

[autism360]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

What is sad is this should not be a political polarizing event. People need to think less about their preferred sports team (Democrat, Republican) and more on common sense policies. The truth is there needs to be BOTH policies favored by Democrats and Republicans. We need more sensible gun laws and background checks favored by Democrats. But we also need heightened surveillance and immigration laws favored by Republicans. Both policies will protect Americans and make it safer for all of us. It makes me upset when you see this political bickering. They act like it's an either/or situation.

For example, in this situation, Omar should not have been removed from the FBI watch list. That is something Republicans favor. AND, anyone including Omar should have went through an exhaustive background search that includes anyone on the FBI watch list and the AR15 should not have been sold to him which is something Democrats favor. And once Omar tried to buy an AR15, that should have been alerted to the FBI as well.

Instead, we have foolish bickering and political pontification where we have childish and petty Democrat vs Republican. People need to wake up and stop being manipulated like puppets by either party and make up your own mind. There are ideas from both parties that make a lot of sense.

But regarding the OP's question, I do not think our aggressive gun laws make us safer. Rather, I think it makes us more vulnerable. Because any nut case can buy an AR 15 and walk into a theater or a mall and just kill people because he is depressed or lost his job etc. I would rather these AR 15 not be sold or if they are going to be sold, people have to go through an exhaustive background search.

France has some of the toughest gun laws in the WORLD and it did not stop the radical muslim islamic terrorists from killing at Bataclan?

What happened at the Bataclan? - BBC News

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by autism360

France has some of the toughest gun laws in the WORLD and it did not stop the radical muslim islamic terrorists from killing at Bataclan?

What happened at the Bataclan? - BBC News

We also have over 10 times more mass shooting events than France as well and most of the weapons bought in these mass events were purchased LEGALLY.

Again, if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to worry about and will be able to get your guns so what's the issue unless of course you know you will not pass a background check. The people who fear background checks know they won't pass.

I will submit to any background or criminal checks including finger printing, retinal scan etc. Then again, I'm not a criminal nor have I ever committed a crime. However, if you go to a gun show, you can bet a good portion of the people there have probably spent some jail time or have records. And you understand why they don't want background checks. Makers perfect sense.

[ajonesaz]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

What is sad is this should not be a political polarizing event. People need to think less about their preferred sports team (Democrat, Republican) and more on common sense policies. The truth is there needs to be BOTH policies favored by Democrats and Republicans. We need more sensible gun laws and background checks favored by Democrats. But we also need heightened surveillance and immigration laws favored by Republicans. Both policies will protect Americans and make it safer for all of us. It makes me upset when you see this political bickering. They act like it's an either/or situation.

For example, in this situation, Omar should not have been removed from the FBI watch list. That is something Republicans favor. AND, anyone including Omar should have went through an exhaustive background search that includes anyone on the FBI watch list and the AR15 should not have been sold to him which is something Democrats favor. And once Omar tried to buy an AR15, that should have been alerted to the FBI as well.

Instead, we have foolish bickering and political pontification where we have childish and petty Democrat vs Republican. People need to wake up and stop being manipulated like puppets by either party and make up your own mind. There are ideas from both parties that make a lot of sense.

But regarding the OP's question, I do not think our aggressive gun laws make us safer. Rather, I think it makes us more vulnerable. Because any nut case can buy an AR 15 and walk into a theater or a mall and just kill people because he is depressed or lost his job etc. I would rather these AR 15 not be sold or if they are going to be sold, people have to go through an exhaustive background search.

The problem is the divide between the R's and D's keeps growing. The media really loves the combative angle. In order not to get torn apart by their own party, candidates have to agree to 100% of the agenda, they are not allowed to have an opinion. America is in need of a 3rd party now more than ever.

I am a gun owner. I have zero issues with background checks and waiting periods. In order to get a drivers license you need to prove you are capable of driving and have to have some kind of understanding of the laws. Why should guns be any different?

Easy solution - communicating with any group outside of the US that our country defines as a terrorist organization should be charged as treason and make it a felony. Felons cannot buy guns. This doesn't mean they can't obtain them, but its a good starting point.

[ajonesaz]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

I will submit to any background or criminal checks including finger printing, retinal scan etc. Then again, I'm not a criminal nor have I ever committed a crime. However, if you go to a gun show, you can bet a good portion of the people there have probably spent some jail time or have records. And you understand why they don't want background checks. Makers perfect sense.

And guns should be registered to their owner who can take blame if their weapon is used to kill. People will be more likely to lock them up in a safe place and there will be less "craigslist" transactions.

[autism360]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

We also have over 10 times more mass shooting events than France as well and most of the weapons bought in these mass events were purchased LEGALLY.

Again, if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to worry about and will be able to get your guns so what's the issue unless of course you know you will not pass a background check. The people who fear background checks know they won't pass.

I will submit to any background or criminal checks including finger printing, retinal scan etc. Then again, I'm not a criminal nor have I ever committed a crime. However, if you go to a gun show, you can bet a good portion of the people there have probably spent some jail time or have records. And you understand why they don't want background checks. Makers perfect sense.

You are completely missing the point, The point is even with the strictest possible gun control like they have in France it does not stop people from killing if that is what they are determined to do.

What would be helpful is ti enforce the gun laws we have and send anyone who is caught using an illegally obtained firearm in the commission of a felony 10 years mandatory in prison, but the dems will not go for this because it means to many minorities will be locked up.