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Maricopa County has established a more conservative, "low cost of living" image that generally attracts more conservative, less educated, lower-skilled people. There are of course exceptions, but that's the image Phoenix puts out there...
I agree; however, those less-educated, lower-skilled folks are probably living in Mesa, Glendale or Avondale, not Scottsdale or neighboring Paradise Valley. They still can't afford the latter.
Ah, straw man argument. Let's get back to the point: they may come from blue states, but the people moving here vote typically vote red. That lower skilled bit is false too. I went to the gym and grocery store this morning, both of which had mostly white employees. Do you consider working reception for a gym or ringing up groceries to be high-skill, white-collar work? Furthermore, the Phoenix area ranks very low in college degree attainment. According to this, it's at a lofty 66th place, between Detroit and Wichita:
On top of that, Mesa is by far one of the most conservative cities in the Valley. Why would you consider that town to be leftist?
Grocery store clerks and gym employees exist everywhere... in rich cities, poor cities, inbetween cities. That is in NO WAY something that pertains to Phoenix alone, nor does it represent how PHX attracts "low skilled workers". Cmon, man.
And Mesa might be "conservative", but thats changing since the burgeoning Hispanic population there votes blue.
At the risk of pointing out the elephant in the room, it would be remiss if it wasn't mentioned that a substantial difference between Scottsdale and Austin is Scottsdale is largely and robustly conservative and Austin.... ahhhh... isn't.
It depends on what type of conservatism you are referring to. Socially, Scottsdale feels less conservative than Austin. Fiscally, Scottsdale is more conservative than Austin. I think in Austin, they consider white guys with long hair and beards playing alternative rock in a bar as "liberal" But ask any minority what feels more liberal, and they will probably say Scottsdale. Austin is still in Texas and the south and you don't see the racial sensitivity and tolerance you would expect of a liberal city. When I was there, interracial relationships were taboo and it felt very segregated: minorities hung out with minorities and whites hung out whites...not all west coast feeling at all. When you went out, the crowd was not diverse or mixed at all. In Scottdale, I see mixed couples all of the time and different types of people out at restaurants and in bars.
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Originally Posted by BIG CATS
Grocery store clerks and gym employees exist everywhere... in rich cities, poor cities, inbetween cities. That is in NO WAY something that pertains to Phoenix alone, nor does it represent how PHX attracts "low skilled workers". Cmon, man.
And Mesa might be "conservative", but thats changing since the burgeoning Hispanic population there votes blue.
Again with this? If you insist on straw man arguments, try to do a better job with them, or at least don't try them on me because they're harder to pull off. Your claim was that lower level positions in Phoenix are done by Latinos, and I pointed out that the people I've seen doing this are largely white. Therefore, that claim is false.
I also believe I read somewhere that Phoenix is one of the greatest cities for entry-level work, which of course means lower skilled people who need experience to jump start their careers. Seriously, if you have people who move solely because sunshine makes them happy, you can't expect much depth, and I think the character of the area (for lack of a better term) reflects that: it's bland, soulless, simple, lazy and unwilling to put in any effort, and likes things the way they are. I can't speak for everyone's field, but I work in one like that: you often have to start in a small market, then move two or three times before you can be far along. In this case, yes, Phoenix is one of those cities. Jobs that are a good fit for me are relatively scarce here, pay much less than they ought to, and have no long-term potential. Part of that has to do with the people here, as jobs in this town even have to dumb down work requirements for these positions, including education and experience (though either is advantageous in looking for work). What I do is considered white-collar work, and even make a bit more than some coworkers because I have more education and experience than them. Phoenix was good enough for me to progress my long-term career goals, but I don't like it enough to stick around and make it work.
It depends on what type of conservatism you are referring to. Socially, Scottsdale feels less conservative than Austin. Fiscally, Scottsdale is more conservative than Austin. I think in Austin, they consider white guys with long hair and beards playing alternative rock in a bar as "liberal" But ask any minority what feels more liberal, and they will probably say Scottsdale. Austin is still in Texas and the south and you don't see the racial sensitivity and tolerance you would expect of a liberal city. When I was there, interracial relationships were taboo and it felt very segregated: minorities hung out with minorities and whites hung out whites...not all west coast feeling at all. When you went out, the crowd was not diverse or mixed at all. In Scottdale, I see mixed couples all of the time and different types of people out at restaurants and in bars.
What are you talking about? What exactly did you mean by its "still in Texas?" When were you last here? Yes, Austin isn't as diverse as Houston or Dallas, but it isn't 60's era Alabama. Also, some of the most racist areas of the country are in Southern California. I say come for another visit and hit some other areas of the state. Visit Houston, the most diverse and integrated city in the country. I just googled restaurants near me (77081) and I initially wanted to list all the restaurants (excluding fast-food and other chain reataurants like Denny's) and literally the list was so long that I decided not not to post it. The list ranges from various types of Indian, Pakistani, Afgan, Cuban, Latin-Japanese fusion, Ethiopian, various Central American cuisine, Mexican, and of course the ubiquitous Tex-Mex. It was also not comprehensive because it failed to list my favorite pupusa buffet which is just down the street. I love walking there and eating till I'm stuffed and then walking back home. Plus the Vietnamese Pho. Another place I'll walk to and go home stuffed. Personally I don't care where the OP moves, it's neither here nor there to me. I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions that may exist about Texas in general.
It depends on what type of conservatism you are referring to. Socially, Scottsdale feels less conservative than Austin. Fiscally, Scottsdale is more conservative than Austin. I think in Austin, they consider white guys with long hair and beards playing alternative rock in a bar as "liberal" But ask any minority what feels more liberal, and they will probably say Scottsdale. Austin is still in Texas and the south and you don't see the racial sensitivity and tolerance you would expect of a liberal city. When I was there, interracial relationships were taboo and it felt very segregated: minorities hung out with minorities and whites hung out whites...not all west coast feeling at all. When you went out, the crowd was not diverse or mixed at all. In Scottdale, I see mixed couples all of the time and different types of people out at restaurants and in bars.
You're welcome to parse it, spin it, Chamber of Commerce it anyway you wish. I stand by my statement and by in large anyone who has spent more than 10 minutes in either place I believe would tend to agree. But hey, don't let me disrupt your narrative. I was just responding to a question...
What are you talking about? What exactly did you mean by its "still in Texas?" When were you last here? Yes, Austin isn't as diverse as Houston or Dallas, but it isn't 60's era Alabama. Also, some of the most racist areas of the country are in Southern California. I say come for another visit and hit some other areas of the state. Visit Houston, the most diverse and integrated city in the country. I just googled restaurants near me (77081) and I initially wanted to list all the restaurants (excluding fast-food and other chain reataurants like Denny's) and literally the list was so long that I decided not not to post it. The list ranges from various types of Indian, Pakistani, Afgan, Cuban, Latin-Japanese fusion, Ethiopian, various Central American cuisine, Mexican, and of course the ubiquitous Tex-Mex. It was also not comprehensive because it failed to list my favorite pupusa buffet which is just down the street. I love walking there and eating till I'm stuffed and then walking back home. Plus the Vietnamese Pho. Another place I'll walk to and go home stuffed. Personally I don't care where the OP moves, it's neither here nor there to me. I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions that may exist about Texas in general.
He does the same when he talks about Florida sometimes where he "supposedly lives" and will make random ignorant comments. Like for instance he will compliment South Florida in one sense but make backhanded insults at the same time. I'm like if your so in love with Phoenix when are you going to move back there. He paints the South so bad all the time but its more diverse than most places in Arizona and the West accept California. Plus transplants are moving here all the time constantly changing the culture so he needs to get grip and stop talking out of his a**.
Austin is still in Texas and the south and you don't see the racial sensitivity and tolerance you would expect of a liberal city. When I was there, interracial relationships were taboo and it felt very segregated: minorities hung out with minorities and whites hung out whites...not all west coast feeling at all. When you went out, the crowd was not diverse or mixed at all. In Scottdale, I see mixed couples all of the time and different types of people out at restaurants and in bars.
This is the most ignorant post I have seen on CD in a long time. As a previous resident of Scottsdale, and a current resident of Houston, I can honestly say that you are WAY out of line. Houston is much more diverse than Phoenix/Scottsdale, and interracial relationships are everywhere. Scottsdale, by comparison, is very whitebread and people tend to be more ignorant/racist than residents of more diverse places. Austin is by far more socially liberal than Scottsdale. There really is no comparison. You cannot rely on outdated stereotypes as fact. I would even go as far as to say that Houston and San Antonio are more socially liberal than the Phoenix metro area. Dallas, not so much.
According to the skill attainment ranking of people in the Phoenix metro, we also have a slightly higher than US average bachelors degree attainment %.
Phoenix comes in at 18.6% while the US average is 18.3%. While at the Masters level we are a hair the US average at 10.3% versus 11%. We actually rank higher than Houston and a bit lower than Dallas on the attainment ranking.
As you mentioned there are exceptions, this is after all a valley of nearly 5Million people, much much larger than Austin. Tempe, I believe, is one of the top educated cities in the valley and claims a 40% attainment which seems to be along the lines of Austin.
I don't know where to begin with this. Should we start with the apocryphal "I can't afford X anymore so I'm moving to Phoenix" so common on this thread, or the fact that in real dollar terms, Phoenix is much cheaper than other cities? Or should we start with the fact that the state's top employers include Walmart, Kroger and Albertsons? I certainly haven't spent most of my adult life aspiring to make it big in the grocery and retail business, though I can't speak for everyone. The cost of living is slightly higher than the national average, yes, but compared to cities people are moving from it's cheaper. Cost of living isn't increasing more rapidly here for a multitude of reasons, including that there aren't higher salaries to warrant the increase.
I would like to see more veracity in that link you posted, because I've never heard of that site before. While I provided a New York Times article stating otherwise, you provided... Value Penguin.
And yes, I think there are exceptions. Phoenix attracts some educated, skilled people, but for the most part it gets a certain class of people, namely those who struggle elsewhere and are attracted to it because they've come here to die (seniors), can't afford where they came from on account of lack of experience/education, or just need ample sun to be happy. In my experience, these are the people who live here and want to stay. People I've met who don't fall into that category generally express interest in wanting to leave. Austin, on the other hand, is a larger city to which you're comparing a relatively small suburb of Phoenix. 40% in this sense is a matter of tens of thousands of people when Austin is about 5x larger than Tempe.
Having lived in both areas, I an say, without a doubt that Austin is a seriously bad move for you. But having been to Ireland..Im not so sure that Scottsdale is good for you either. I think it would be too severe. I have traveled all over the USA and I have lived in so many places it ridiculous. My pic, if a job is not important, is Ashland Oregon.
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