VERRADO-Questions (Phoenix, Scottsdale, Gilbert: appointed, sale, 2015)
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Agreed. Excellent post, but between the 10 or cutting over on Indian School and down it shouldn't take you 10 minutes to hit the 10. Maybe victory will get to that range, but I'm not certain as I've only been to the Vic after already being in Verrado.
One of our friends is about as buried as you can be, it has to be about 8-10 turns after getting off Verrado Way and it takes about 7-8 minutes to wind into their lot.
I can make it from main street/Verrado Way to the Walmart plaza off Estrella & Roosevelt in 12 to 13 minutes
If you spend much time in both places, I think it's pretty apparent that the building/development is in many ways aligned along the same layout concepts/building styles and designs/faux or decorative exterior and interior touches and finishes/whatever. This includes the rather small lots despite some huge square footages. Like all builders, whether building in the middle of nowhere or on pricy real estate in Scottsdale, they figured postage-stamp lots were the most efficient way to improve their financial returns. This is my opinion of both Verrado and DC Ranch -- a lot of nice homes on lots that are relatively small to quite small.
You seem to really be praising these examples of newer tract housing while criticizing older tract housing.
Unfortunately, the newer tract home you buy today will one day be an older tract home.
And what you think looks good today will no longer look as good to you in 10 or 20 years. It will look "dated" to you just like all the 1990s and early 2000s builds look dated to you now.
My personal preference is for large lot sizes and custom-built homes with clean / simple / traditional lines. I do like some of what is "hot" or "trendy" right now but I also recognize that it will all look so common and dated in 10 years so I consciously try to avoid those sorts of renovations that may end up looking dated/kitschy/whatever. Part of this is due to mass-production builders applying the same "hot" touches to pretty much everything they build during an X-year period. (E.g. stainless appliances ... or those colorful backsplashes ... or that troweling of exterior stucco to give it a more "rustic" appearance -- these are all common design touches from certain X-year periods by which you can easily date a home.)
A lot of the newest "modern" touches you see today will probably look "dated" to all of us in 10 years no matter how nice we think they look currently.
One fear of mine is that midcentury modern has become so hot again that I fear the use of many of its elements by modern renovators and builders will end up in the future making us all not like midcentury modern as much as we once did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker
Agreed. Excellent post, but between the 10 or cutting over on Indian School and down it shouldn't take you 10 minutes to hit the 10. Maybe victory will get to that range, but I'm not certain as I've only been to the Vic after already being in Verrado.
One of our friends is about as buried as you can be, it has to be about 8-10 turns after getting off Verrado Way and it takes about 7-8 minutes to wind into their lot.
I can make it from main street/Verrado Way to the Walmart plaza off Estrella & Roosevelt in 12 to 13 minutes
I feel the same way about some of the more tucked-away parts of DC Ranch or many of the developments further north of the 101 ... 10-20 minutes to the freeway each way definitely adds up when you do the roundtrip at LEAST once a day.
There is something wrong in Buckeye with the water bills. Until they get it fixed and find out why some people are getting $7000 monthly bills, I would not advise anyone to move to Buckeye.
If you spend much time in both places, I think it's pretty apparent that the building/development is in many ways aligned along the same layout concepts/building styles and designs/faux or decorative exterior and interior touches and finishes/whatever. This includes the rather small lots despite some huge square footages. Like all builders, whether building in the middle of nowhere or on pricy real estate in Scottsdale, they figured postage-stamp lots were the most efficient way to improve their financial returns. This is my opinion of both Verrado and DC Ranch -- a lot of nice homes on lots that are relatively small to quite small.
Hard to disagree with that point. But I will say, the DMB controls what homes can go next to another. So they control how many 2 stories can be together (too closed in feel) as well as the distinct styles of homes. Also, if the home is smaller, they will push the garage back to give it "depth" fooling you that it is bigger than it is. Plus, they control the style of the homes next to each other as well as they paint shares. Yes, controlling, but to my eye it is an ideal approach.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark
You seem to really be praising these examples of newer tract housing while criticizing older tract housing.
Actually, I am only praising master planned communities. DMB's are just one brew that I like. What I personally don't prefer are the developments that have 30 shades of tan which are littered around the Valley. There are some much worse than others. Surprise has their unfair share or ugly tan homes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottsdaleMark
Unfortunately, the newer tract home you buy today will one day be an older tract home.
And what you think looks good today will no longer look as good to you in 10 or 20 years. It will look "dated" to you just like all the 1990s and early 2000s builds look dated to you now.
True. 70's homes are different that homes designed and built in the 80's etc. Homes use to have oak cabinets, then maple, then Alder, etc. So they are eras. That said, the DMB's are more timeless because of how and what they did. For instance, they studied European streets and layouts to pull off a different neighborhood feel (like less cul de sacs, an occasional alley, etc). Also, some smaller lots with smaller homes will be across a park (16 parks in our hood) and they have a more spacious feel even though they are (as you say) on a postage stamp lots.
Our lot is 10,000 square foot or about a 1/4 acre. Certainly not large, but not a "postage stamp" either. But there are much smaller lots and the look is "fixed" by how they did the neighborhood design. I propose back that the tight controls like porches galore and various mandatory styles like Bungalow, Cottage, Craftsman, Monterey, Spanish, Territorial, Ranch and Traditional make the "feel" much more timeless. For that matter, down right interesting. The 16 parks that are green help with master planned feel as well as tree lines streets. In short, the neighborhood doesn't feel like a tract home. Nor does it feel like it is in AZ. It's radically different to my eye.
Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 02-15-2017 at 04:09 PM..
Agreed. Excellent post, but between the 10 or cutting over on Indian School and down it shouldn't take you 10 minutes to hit the 10. Maybe victory will get to that range, but I'm not certain as I've only been to the Vic after already being in Verrado.
One of our friends is about as buried as you can be, it has to be about 8-10 turns after getting off Verrado Way and it takes about 7-8 minutes to wind into their lot.
I can make it from main street/Verrado Way to the Walmart plaza off Estrella & Roosevelt in 12 to 13 minutes
I yield to your experience re: the measured time to the 10. I was in Victory (the very top of the development). I physically never timed it. But if felt like 10 minutes. I thought, "WOW, this is taking forever."
Hard to disagree with that point. But I will say, the DMB controls what homes can go next to another. So they control how many 2 stories can be together (too closed in feel) as well as the distinct styles of homes. Also, if the home is smaller, they will push the garage back to give it "depth" fooling you that it is bigger than it is. Plus, they control the style of the homes next to each other as well as they paint shares. Yes, controlling, but to my eye it is an ideal approach.
Actually, I am only praising master planned communities. DMB's are just one brew that I like. What I personally don't prefer are the developments that have 30 shades of tan which are littered around the Valley. There are some much worse than others. Surprise has their unfair share or ugly tan homes.
True. 70's homes are different that homes designed and built in the 80's etc. Homes use to have oak cabinets, then maple, then Alder, etc. So they are eras. That said, the DMB's are more timeless because of how and what they did. For instance, they studied European streets and layouts to pull off a different neighborhood feel (like less cul de sacs, an occasional alley, etc). Also, some smaller lots with smaller homes will be across a park (16 parks in our hood) and they have a more spacious feel even though they are (as you say) on a postage stamp lots.
Our lot is 10,000 square foot or about a 1/4 acre. Certainly not large, but not a "postage stamp" either. But there are much smaller lots and the look is "fixed" by how they did the neighborhood design. I propose back that the tight controls like porches galore and various mandatory styles like Bungalow, Cottage, Craftsman, Monterey, Spanish, Territorial, Ranch and Traditional make the "feel" much more timeless. For that matter, down right interesting. The 16 parks that are green help with master planned feel as well as tree lines streets. In short, the neighborhood doesn't feel like a tract home. Nor does it feel like it is in AZ. It's radically different to my eye.
Good post, I agree they do a nice job with varying things up as best they can although some touches/accents are still pretty prevalent. I do think because of the small lots sometimes you get this look of too much vegetation/trees crammed into tiny front "yards" and side yards and this only gets worse over time as the trees mature. But the parks are all generally really nice, I agree, and the street layouts, etc., are usually good. I also kind of like the way some homes have rear garages and an alleyway -- that's a nice touch you don't see often out here in AZ.
For me, I'm a big outside-space, lawn and garden, plants and trees, etc., type of guy so that rules me out of most master-planned communities because the lot size just isn't available.
I once lived in a home with custom hard wood cabinets. Some people thought they looked dated but I felt like, the value in hard wood custom cabinets is immense even if they're older in design. The house I live in now is older but was remodeled at one point and the cabinets while "modern" enough in design, are the usual cheap kind (with veneers rather than solid wood all the way through) you see in builder homes and budget reno's these days and it drives me nuts. I wish I knew what the original cabinets had been because I bet I would've liked them more than these builder-grade cabinets. I guess I'm just waiting for them to get old enough and start to show their cheapness so that I can justify replacing them. Whereas, people I know who live in DC Ranch have much nicer cabinets, even though they're builder-installed cabinets, they don't "look" like it so I do give them credit for having a nice build quality on a lot of things.
Thank you all for the info We have looked around and we like the feel of Verrado, however we have heard that the water bills are high because it is from a different company. Also, the sewer and trash. If anyone knows of the average cost of the electric, water, gas, sewer, etc. that would be great info. We have an HOA in california right now and they have some ridiculous rules...for example, we cannot have our garage door open for more than 3 hours a day. I was wondering if there are similair regulations.
I have friends that have lived in Verrado for years and are in the process of selling both of their properties off and leaving. The driving issue is the HOA and how they're enforcing rules strictly as written without using any common sense or giving any thought to how each situation can be a bit different. Another issue is the developers and the HOA apparently have two sets of rules, one for homeowners and one for themselves. Evidently they are in the process of building some "resort style" apartments or condos which is an issue unto itself but I guess the big issue is these buildings will not have to abide by the same building standards as all other homeowners have had to as the apartment buildings will have composition shingle roofs.
I'd suggest you first get a copy of the CC&R's and read them from front to back and then be clear on the fact that they WILL be enforced to the letter. Things like how many plants must be in your yard (an insane amount in my opinion) and what trees (type and amount) MUST be planted both front yard AND backyard. If you think once you move in that you'll have some wiggle room to plant something not specifically on the approved list or do something a bit different then think again as it's my understanding it will not be tolerated.
If you're good with them and that they will be enforced as written with no variance then proceed. Verrado does have nice homes and great landscaping but there is a price to pay for that and evidently one part of that price is any measure of freedom.
Verrado, particularly older sections north of Lost Creek Road built circa 2004 - 2008, sets itself apart from other master plans because of its focus on social interaction (e.g., front porches), architectural design standards, and general feel. You know when driving through the community that it's exceptional. Developer DMB does a fine job putting together neighborhoods. All DMB communities are more expensive than neighboring communities that's because they look and feel better. Look at similar Marley Park in Surprise or DC Ranch in Scottsdale and you will find the same.
It's notable that water bills in Verrado are higher. My home there has a pool and my bill last month was about $100. My home in Goodyear's Palm Valley community, by contrast, which has a larger pool, had a water bill for the same period at least 25% lower.
It's not in the middle of nowhere....It's IS further out....You have shopping within a few minutes of the community either offer Estrella Parkway (east) or off Watson to the west. . .and you may have noticed the Basha's on Main Street...I did not hesitate to live there and I work just east of downtown Phoenix.
Compared to some parts of Detroit, yes. But really, just in general that is a very low cost house. What's your point though?
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We have looked around and we like the feel of Verrado, however we have heard that the water bills are high because it is from a different company. Also, the sewer and trash. If anyone knows of the average cost of the electric, water, gas, sewer, etc. that would be great info. We have an HOA in california right now and they have some ridiculous rules...for example, we cannot have our garage door open for more than 3 hours a day. I was wondering if there are similair regulations.
