Solar Energy (tax credit, prices, dryer)

[hikernut]

Originally Posted by N572GL

If you arrange battery back-up (Tesla Powerwall) to store your excess energy, instead of selling it back to the power company, then you can go "off-grid". "Off-grid" means the power company will remove their meter from your house and you won't have them available in case of emergency. You're on your own. (Buy a gas powered generator) People with mountain cabins do it all the time, out of necessity. If you have a meter you will get a power bill. If you have credits, you will get a true-up bill annually. Everyone on the grid has to pay their fair share to support the guys/gals who climb the poles; NOTE: If this doesn't apply to your area, it will someday soon.

Exactly why would I want to go off grid when I have metered electricity available? The amortized cost of just the Powerwall is more per kWh than I pay for electricity.

[davder]

N572GL
thanks for the sharing your knowledge because we have no clue about solar and of course that why we are hear to
get info. and advise about getting solar installed. all of you folks have been given us some idea about solar but as i
mentioned, we are just learing and want to get the best deal for ourselves.
thank you

[jimj]

Originally Posted by N572GL

I feel compelled to clarify some of the information in this thread that is not correct. In no order of priority:

Lease/Power Purchase Agreements (PPA) are easy to get into and very expensive to get out of. Dave Ramsey says, "Friends don't let friends lease solar"...

A property appraiser may NOT include the value of a leased solar system as it is not real property; it is not owned by the seller. In many transactions, a leased system actually detracts from the appeal of the property;

If you arrange battery back-up (Tesla Powerwall) to store your excess energy, instead of selling it back to the power company, then you can go "off-grid". "Off-grid" means the power company will remove their meter from your house and you won't have them available in case of emergency. You're on your own. (Buy a gas powered generator) People with mountain cabins do it all the time, out of necessity. If you have a meter you will get a power bill. If you have credits, you will get a true-up bill annually. Everyone on the grid has to pay their fair share to support the guys/gals who climb the poles; NOTE: If this doesn't apply to your area, it will someday soon.

The key to making solar affordable is the financing options. Google, "Title-1" home improvement loans or, if moving/selling isn't in your foreseeable future, consider a PACE/HERO loan financed into your property tax bill; in either case you OWN the system.

I have seen a properly sized solar system knock a $185 electric bill down to $6; that's pretty impressive in my book. Any purchase financing tool within that spread is still a good deal;

Of course, insulate you attic to a minimum of R-38 and install a whole-house fan or, at the minimum, an attic fan to purge the hot air. Efficient lighting and appliances are nice but, we spend more money conditioning the air-space (heating and cooling) than on all the rest combined. If you have a swimming pool you MUST get a variable-speed pool pump. They're about $1,800 installed but should pay for themselves within two years.

Happy Hunting...

Good information! I would add that upping attic insulation to R53 is probably one of the best investments one can make. When I built we put R53 in along with maxing out the walls and that negated any need for A/C (in our area) and reduced the heating expenses as it cut heat loss. I could open upstairs/downstairs windows in the morning, place a fan upstairs to exhaust warm air while sucking in cold air and then close it all up. The house would stay cool all day long.
A whole house fan is one thing I wished I'd done and will do on the next house, that's for certain!

As for storing your own power, Tesla is but one option and not really the best one at this time. There are several storage options that are about to begin mass distribution that will be cheaper and allow for a few days storage of power which Tesla's product doesn't do at this point.

Were I to go solar I'd stay grid tied only because I believe it's the law and install a 110% system with power storage and only having to pay for being grid tied. Whatever I didn't use or store would go back to APS hopefully negating my grid charge.

[patrick85395]

Originally Posted by patrick85395

I lease for about $130/month;...about $35k over the 30 year term. It works for me. Monthly summer savings is about $400/month and I can run the house cooler. I was pushing $700/month in the summer and sweating because I ran the house warmer than I wanted....I've also done window, and new HVAC.....then again, I'm never moving.

Correction: I meant to type, "I lease for about $130/month;...about $35k over the 20 year term." There is some modest annual escalation which I factored in the the $35k. Again, it works for me. Home is about 3500 sq ft with 10 ft ceilings.

I looked briefly @ the Tesla wall and asked if it' possible get off the grid. I was told that it was not possible.

[HX_Guy]

That is correct, my understanding is that your house will lose is Certificate of Occupancy if you disconnect from the grid. The house has to have a reliable power source - not that solar isn't, but a cloudy day, or several cloudy days, even with a battery, would be difficult to get through here in the Phoenix area.

Regarding batteries, I do not think they are worth it at this point. If you can essentially use APS as your battery for ~$20.00/month, it would take you 275 months to recoup your $5,500.00 Tesla Powerwall purchase. That that Powerwall is pretty small, certainly not something you could power your house off of for more than a few hours if you have the AC running.

[kent_moore]

With all the biggest nuclear plants (Palo Verde 1,2 3), it is not worth to go solar i AZ despite having abundance of sunshine.

[AzScorpion12]

Originally Posted by kent_moore

With all the biggest nuclear plants (Palo Verde 1,2 3), it is not worth to go solar i AZ despite having abundance of sunshine.

Do you have any real stats to back this up or is this just an assumtion?

In roughly 6-7 years my initial investment into my system will be paid for and my house is grandfathered in for another 13 years after that. This means that my monthly bills will remain around $18-$19/month.

What will yours be with APS along with future increases?

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Gixxer1K

Do you have any real stats to back this up or is this just an assumtion?

In roughly 6-7 years my initial investment into my system will be paid for and my house is grandfathered in for another 13 years after that. This means that my monthly bills will remain around $18-$19/month.

What will yours be with APS along with future increases?

While people who got in several years ago got to take advantage of some real healthy rebates/pricing that is just not the case anymore.
You also have to factor in whether you will stay in the house long enough to reap the actual long term benefits.
The best thing I can say about solar at this point is YMMV. If someone is thinking about it, investigate,investigate,think and investigate before you pull the trigger to see if it's really what you think it will be.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by jimj

While people who got in several years ago got to take advantage of some real healthy rebates/pricing that is just not the case anymore.
You also have to factor in whether you will stay in the house long enough to reap the actual long term benefits.

I disagree on that. Depending on the efficiency of the system, you can still have a "break even" point of about 7 years or less today with a purchased or prepaid system, which to me me is a no brainer.

It's basically like renting an apartment vs buying a house. You have to live somewhere, so you're going to have a payment, why not put the same money you'd be paying anyway toward the solar?

Say you have an average APS bill of $200.00/month...over the next 7 years you are going to give APS $16,800 and that's figuring APS is not going to raise their rates for the next 7 years. If for the same money, you can buy or prepaid a solar system, you're spending the same amount, and after 7 years your electricity is practically free.

Yes not everyone is going to have $16,800 to spend, but there are $0 down loan programs with monthly payments that cost the same or less of what you'd already be sending off to APS...so it's not as if costs you more than what you were already paying. To that point, I've never understood APS' argument that solar is for the rich. It can literally save you money from month 1 and it can be no money down.

Regarding not being in the home long enough - ASU's as well as other studies have found that homes with owned solar system (and I'd imagine prepaid as well) sell for higher than homes without, so you would recoup your money if you did sell the house.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

I disagree on that. Depending on the efficiency of the system, you can still have a "break even" point of about 7 years or less today with a purchased or prepaid system, which to me me is a no brainer.

It's basically like renting an apartment vs buying a house. You have to live somewhere, so you're going to have a payment, why not put the same money you'd be paying anyway toward the solar?

Say you have an average APS bill of $200.00/month...over the next 7 years you are going to give APS $16,800 and that's figuring APS is not going to raise their rates for the next 7 years. If for the same money, you can buy or prepaid a solar system, you're spending the same amount, and after 7 years your electricity is practically free.

Yes not everyone is going to have $16,800 to spend, but there are $0 down loan programs with monthly payments that cost the same or less of what you'd already be sending off to APS...so it's not as if costs you more than what you were already paying. To that point, I've never understood APS' argument that solar is for the rich. It can literally save you money from month 1 and it can be no money down.

Regarding not being in the home long enough - ASU's as well as other studies have found that homes with owned solar system (and I'd imagine prepaid as well) sell for higher than homes without, so you would recoup your money if you did sell the house.

And you've been in the solar business how long?