Solar Panels ???? (Phoenix: taxi, tax, to live)

[beez74]

Ok so in this post i created people have broke down all kinds of stuff and numbers and gross market stuff that as of now just left me lost. can someone answer this for me real quick...........example>>>house is for sale for say 265,000 has BRAND NEW PANELS installed, what kind of fees or difficulty or out of pocket expense am i looking at with these new panels if i made an offer ??? a loan on the panels? a huge transfer fee? Can i say take um with you? will I still need APS electric service ?will i get 2 bills? that's where i'm lost with the solar thing. Thanks ALL that replied even if some of it i dont understand.

[AZ Manager]

Originally Posted by beez74

Ok so in this post i created people have broke down all kinds of stuff and numbers and gross market stuff that as of now just left me lost. can someone answer this for me real quick...........example>>>house is for sale for say 265,000 has BRAND NEW PANELS installed,

1) what kind of fees or difficulty or out of pocket expense am i looking at with these new panels if i made an offer ???

2) a loan on the panels?

3) a huge transfer fee?

4) Can i say take um with you?

5) will I still need APS electric service ?

6) will i get 2 bills?

that's where i'm lost with the solar thing. Thanks ALL that replied even if some of it i dont understand.

Not really enough specifics to answer the questions and some of them have multiple answers. I numbered your questions for ease of reference.

1) Depends on how new. Are they grandfathered or not? As my bill that I posted here shows I pay APS at least $22 a month. I just got my June statement today and it is $22.18.

2) A loan is none of your concern. It will be paid off in the sale as the seller has to provide a clean title. If there is a lease you have a lot of options including making the seller prepay the remainder of the lease. Your realtor will help you because this needs to be in the purchase offer.

3) If there is it is the seller that would pay for it not you.

4) Sure can. An owned system or a prepaid lease that is grandfathered it wouldn't ever make sense under any circumstances to do that though.

5) Yes. APS is essentially a battery for a grandfathered solar system. You pay a minor monthly fee to them for them to store your excess production and use it from them when you need it.

6) Not if you make the seller prepay the lease in full before you close. Most loans aren't assumble like a lease is so they will be paid off at or before closing. I'd never assume a lease and I wish people would stop doing it altogether, it is the main reason why leased systems reduce home values.

That should answer the bulk of the options with your questions. If you want I can take a look at a specific house for you just PM me and we can hook up off this forum.

Here is my June statement and based on those numbers my estimates are off (too high). I won't be paying nearly what I assumed I would for a full year so I will be saving more than I was expecting.

https://imgur.com/a/rlXXlrk

[Scrapjockey]

Several people posting here have referenced AP "profits" which I find puzzling. Unless AP is an "Enterprise Activity" I don't think they are allowed to make a profit as such. Be aware, I am in Virginia planning to move to the Phoenix area so I certainly could be wrong, but if they are governed by the PUC, profit is not in their charter. kWh cost here in Fredericksburg is right around $.03 which is significantly less than AP. All utilities have "fixed" costs. These are usually bond payoffs for Capital expenses, altho, operating costs can also be "fixed" as well. Fixed costs are those AP, or pretty much any other utility, has to pay regardless of how much power is sold from the grid. These costs can be offset by an "ad valorem" tax or a fixed rate on your monthly bill, or both. Since the bond payoff etc. are fixed no matter how much power is sold, the unit cost per kWh has to go up as fewer kWhs are sold. As a result, the more individual solar generated power, the less power AP sells, the kWh cost must go up. Look on your monthly bills, the fixed costs should be identified and itemized. Of course there are other factors to be considered, but this is a major one. I have not read all the posts in all the other forum categories so I may be beating a dead horse here. Apologies if so.


I got some great information from you guys for which I thank you. I'm pretty sure what I am going to do when purchasing a home in the Phoenix area during the next month or so relative to solar. Wouldn't have had a clue without this forum.

[Scrapjockey]

If when I purchase a home in Phoenix that has leased solar panels, and I require the seller to pay off the lease, who then owns the panels? Does the leasing company remove them? Does the seller then own them? Does the "home" own them? If it is the seller, then all I would have to do is include in the contract that they are turned over to me, but if the leasing company owns them what are my options?

[MalteseJane]

Originally Posted by Scrapjockey

If when I purchase a home in Phoenix that has leased solar panels, and I require the seller to pay off the lease, who then owns the panels? Does the leasing company remove them? Does the seller then own them? Does the "home" own them? If it is the seller, then all I would have to do is include in the contract that they are turned over to me, but if the leasing company owns them what are my options?

Why do you make this more complicated than it is ? If the seller pays off the lease, the leasing company will still own the panels. Why would they remove the panels ? Why would the seller own the panels ? IT'S A LEASE ! He cannot own the panels. The home does not own the panels, again it's a lease and the leasing company owns the panels. What do you mean by what are your options if the leasing company owns the panels ? If the seller pays off the lease, it's not in your interest to buy the panels from the leasing company. You won't have any monthly payments and the leasing company is responsible for the maintenance of the panels. Why would you want them to remove the panels if the lease is paid for ?? It would be foolish unless you prefer to pay electricity to APS instead of having free electricity. After 20 years, you have the choice to buy the panels (at market value) or the leasing company removes them for free. Ask the seller to give you the contract he has with the leasing company.

[Scrapjockey]

Apparently I have offended you with my question, otherwise, I would not have expected such a rude response. Is this what I am to expect in Arizona? I have found in my experience as a senior executive that responses such as this reflect a lack of understanding upon the responder. Please do not respond to anymore of my posts, if any, in the future.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Scrapjockey

If when I purchase a home in Phoenix that has leased solar panels, and I require the seller to pay off the lease, who then owns the panels? Does the leasing company remove them? Does the seller then own them? Does the "home" own them? If it is the seller, then all I would have to do is include in the contract that they are turned over to me, but if the leasing company owns them what are my options?

A quick answer is the Solar company retains ownership until/unless you purchase the panels just like with the lease of a car. Your options when the lease is fully paid is one of two, 1. Purchase them at a depreciated cost. 2. Tell the Solar company to remove them. That is what my current lease says btw.

As a heads up, there are issues with a leased system that we just found out and it's now biting us in the butt big time. I don't know how or even if we can do anything at this point to fix it but we're working on it.

The issue has to do with an undersized system that is grandfathered in and expanding the system so it actually saves some money instead of just trading who we're paying.

So far we've not found a solution.

[AZ Manager]

Originally Posted by jimj

A quick answer is the Solar company retains ownership until/unless you purchase the panels just like with the lease of a car. Your options when the lease is fully paid is one of two, 1. Purchase them at a depreciated cost. 2. Tell the Solar company to remove them. That is what my current lease says btw.

As a heads up, there are issues with a leased system that we just found out and it's now biting us in the butt big time. I don't know how or even if we can do anything at this point to fix it but we're working on it.

The issue has to do with an undersized system that is grandfathered in and expanding the system so it actually saves some money instead of just trading who we're paying.

So far we've not found a solution.

Isn't the current rule new solar locks in the buyback rate for 10 years? You could scale up the system to fit your needs and get basically net metering for the next 10 years which is way longer than most ROIs anyway. You purchased the home with solar so you couldn't be missing out on too many years of net metering doing it that way anyway.

[wildcat465]

I lease my panels (about 135/month). My summer bills used to push $650/month in the Summer. Now, the bill hovers around $125/month + I run my house a few degrees cooler and almost 24 hrs/day. I don't worry about the bill. Home is 3500+ sq ft, single story,10' ceilings. It's crazy not to have solar. In the winter, my APS bill is zero.

[Scrapjockey]

Originally Posted by jimj

A quick answer is the Solar company retains ownership until/unless you purchase the panels just like with the lease of a car. Your options when the lease is fully paid is one of two, 1. Purchase them at a depreciated cost. 2. Tell the Solar company to remove them. That is what my current lease says btw.

As a heads up, there are issues with a leased system that we just found out and it's now biting us in the butt big time. I don't know how or even if we can do anything at this point to fix it but we're working on it.

The issue has to do with an undersized system that is grandfathered in and expanding the system so it actually saves some money instead of just trading who we're paying.

So far we've not found a solution.

Thank you. You have restored my faith in Arizona. On the surface, the home solar issue sounds so simple, but in reality is quite complex. If the seller buys out the lease, it appears I have two options, buy the panels or have them removed. Sounds simple, but how much responsibility does the leasing company incur relative to any damage to the roof, and for how long? Possibly in the original contract. How is the cost determined? Again, possibly in the contract. Does the leasing company have to identify the remaining efficiency of the panels? Then there is the whole "grandfathering" thing, and more....


I have learned that if one is to involve one's self in home solar generation, one must be alert. (More so than your average plant.) At the very least I have learned of some of the many issues to research for which I attribute to this forum. Thank you.