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Well, on the surface yes BUT. The "new rules" say that we have to live with this system for one year so they can figure out how much they'll "allow" me to upscale.
Second, they have to add a whole second system with all the electronics (inverter/meter) because they can't (or won't) remove the inverter/wall box and just put a bigger one on which is nothing short of insane.
Third, we are then removed from our current grandfathered plan and put wholly under the "new" rules which after ten years results in ZERO offsets, as in ZERO net metering. As I was told by APS, after 10 you will be GIVING your power to them for nothing, treated just like another one of their generating stations, as in you will get ZERO benefit (no bill reduction) from the power you're now sending them.
Now we could roll the dice and hope/pray that either the rules are changed or that battery storage will become reasonable over the next couple of years as that is the ONLY thing that will save the Solar savings people are now enjoying.
If I'm incorrect please feel free to correct me but show where I'm in error...
One other thing which is a big brain teaser, under our current plan which is the grandfathered "standard plan" we get charged the standard rate no matter (when?) we use power. It's my understanding that even if we go by the time of use hours 3-8pm it doesn't lower our rate and the only way to get those savings is to remove the grandfathering and lose higher net metering repayment as well as 18 years (the system is only 2 years old).
When we looked at this house I wasn't thrilled that it had solar but after talking to some people we figured that the $30 per month lease was cheap enough that it was no biggie. What I didn't understand is how negatively that little system would affect us in the long run. We were told "well, at least it'll offset "some" of your electric costs. Well, not really in the long run unless we close down the house and wait until winter because it only covers 90 of the 1800 kwh used every month.
Jim, it certainly must cover more than 90kWh. Where is the 90kWh number coming from? If its from the bill, as showing that is what you sent back to APS, thats only a net amount. Meaning say your system produced 500kWh...if your houses uses 410kWh directly from the solar system during the day, the bill would show the 90kWh that you sent back to APS.
Your APS bill will not show our solar production, only your overproduction. You can get the date of what is actually produced and then can actually figured out your real electricity usage, as that is not shown on the bill either.
Regarding the increasing the system, which would automatically kick you off Net Metering, as we talked over email you would not get 10 years of grandfathering at the current $0.129/kWh buy back. That is only available to NEW solar customers until Sept 1st of this year. If you go on this new plans, you buy back rate will adjust every year, possibly going down by 10% per year as thats the most APS is allowed to “ask” from the A.C.C. for as a reduction. Again, new customer get 10 year of grandfathering, you, as someone who is trying to fix a bad situation, get punished. Its completely asinine but I guess thats what happens when the A.C.C. is bought by APS. APS has already submtted docs to reduce the $0.129 to $0.116 and I’m sure they will get it, and I’m sur they will get it again next year again. It may change when he Commissiors change, if they ever do (not sure if they are term limited).
Your "knowledge" of financial factors is irrelevant to this Phoenix thread, since AZ Manager was completely correct in his post; APS makes a profit, and isnt shy about raising rates and "buying" board members who over see their rate increases.
Maybe where ever you came from is different, but thats NOT how things are here..
And, save the political comments for the political forum, as we dont need/want that detritus here..
You are absolutely correct. The Trump comments was a cheap shot for which I apologize. You are correct again, APS does make a profit, but is governed by Utilities Division - Arizona Corporation Commission (ACC). APS has "debt service", that includes its investors. The ACC insures these profits are in-line with their charter etc. The point I was trying to make is that when their revenues decrease they have to raise rates to meet their "debt service". Solar panels decrease revenue for them, therefore, it follows they have to make it up. Financial factors are never irrelevant. Making a profit is a financial factor. What drives rates is a financial factor. Understanding what drives rates leads to control and oversight.
Stating APS "buys" board members is a serious charge. If you have provable evidence of this, you should report it to ACC. I'm not saying you do not, just if you do, don't sit on it.
Again, I apologize for the "cheap" shot. No excuse for that, and I regret it. I also understand you should know more about APS than me, but I have serious years managing utilities from Alaska to San Diego and also know how they work.
Jim, it certainly must cover more than 90kWh. Where is the 90kWh number coming from? If its from the bill, as showing that is what you sent back to APS, thats only a net amount. Meaning say your system produced 500kWh...if your houses uses 410kWh directly from the solar system during the day, the bill would show the 90kWh that you sent back to APS.
Your APS bill will not show our solar production, only your overproduction. You can get the date of what is actually produced and then can actually figured out your real electricity usage, as that is not shown on the bill either.
Regarding the increasing the system, which would automatically kick you off Net Metering, as we talked over email you would not get 10 years of grandfathering at the current $0.129/kWh buy back. That is only available to NEW solar customers until Sept 1st of this year. If you go on this new plans, you buy back rate will adjust every year, possibly going down by 10% per year as thats the most APS is allowed to “ask” from the A.C.C. for as a reduction. Again, new customer get 10 year of grandfathering, you, as someone who is trying to fix a bad situation, get punished. Its completely asinine but I guess thats what happens when the A.C.C. is bought by APS. APS has already submtted docs to reduce the $0.129 to $0.116 and I’m sure they will get it, and I’m sur they will get it again next year again. It may change when he Commissiors change, if they ever do (not sure if they are term limited).
Okay, below is my confusion from the bill. It would seem to me how this works is that I draw all power from APS and then they deduct the power I sent back to them from what I took from them. Unless I'm wrong I don't use any power that my panels generate before using APS power. Am I missing something?
Meter reading on Jul 17 8438
Meter reading on Jun 14 6616 Total electricity from APS, in kWh 1822
Amount of electricity credited
Meter reading on Jul 17 5737
Meter reading on Jun 14 5647 Total electricity credited, in kWh 90
Your bill does not show you what you use from solar, it doesn't even show you your real usage. APS loves to make it confusion, when they could make it so clear as they have all the information.
You need to log into your APS account and then go to "my energy" and click on "daily & hourly usage". Once there, click on the drop down where it shows your address and choose the address with the * in front of it. That there is your actual solar production. Click on "download meter data", which you have to do for every month, and make a spreadsheet out of it. Once you have that, you can download your monthly APS usage by going to "my energy" and then click on "custom usage download" and download a years worth of history.
Now with all the data, you have to combine it all by taking the solar production, subtract the solar credited, and then add the net solar production to your usage, and thats your real usage.
For example, on your bill you used 1822kWh from APS and credited 90kWh of solar. Say your solar produced 400kWh during that billing cycle. That would mean that out of the 400kWh, your house directly used 310kWh, and the other 90kWh it didnt use went back to APS...which is why it shows up on your bill. You pulled 1822kWh from APS, and you used 310kWh from the solar system, meaning your actual usage for the month was 2,132kWh.
Your bill does not show you what you use from solar, it doesn't even show you your real usage. APS loves to make it confusion, when they could make it so clear as they have all the information.
You need to log into your APS account and then go to "my energy" and click on "daily & hourly usage". Once there, click on the drop down where it shows your address and choose the address with the * in front of it. That there is your actual solar production. Click on "download meter data", which you have to do for every month, and make a spreadsheet out of it. Once you have that, you can download your monthly APS usage by going to "my energy" and then click on "custom usage download" and download a years worth of history.
Now with all the data, you have to combine it all by taking the solar production, subtract the solar credited, and then add the net solar production to your usage, and thats your real usage.
For example, on your bill you used 1822kWh from APS and credited 90kWh of solar. Say your solar produced 400kWh during that billing cycle. That would mean that out of the 400kWh, your house directly used 310kWh, and the other 90kWh it didnt use went back to APS...which is why it shows up on your bill. You pulled 1822kWh from APS, and you used 310kWh from the solar system, meaning your actual usage for the month was 2,132kWh.
APS is down right now for site maintenance so I can't double check it right now but I looked at that meter back in September and from what I could gather it isn't what you describe. I believe the * is the meter for energy sent to the grid and not the actual solar production meter, at least that is what mine was back in September when I looked at it and decided the data was worthless. I haven't checked it since then so I only have the 1 month of data in my spreadsheet so I could be wrong.
I will pull it up tomorrow and take another look at it but from the September data I have in excel already it shows I generated 686.070 kWh (sent to the grid) and used 1119.005 kWh (used from the grid, not solar) for total used off the grid of 432.935 kWh. That data is actually missing two days (Oct 9th and Oct 10th) but it lines up with my bill which charged me for 441 kWh pulled from the grid. My inverter, from the solaredge monitoring, shows I generated 1520.576 kWh for the same time period (also not including the 9th and 10th).
I know the solaredge data isn't 100% reliable, at least that is what other solar websites have stated, but it isn't that far off from what I can tell. Jan 2017 I used 883 kWh (pre-solar) and Jan 2018 I used 781 kWh (after solar). To get this years total I took my production based on the solaredge numbers (1168.994 kWh) and subtracted my credit on my APS bill (388 kWh) which gives me my total usage of 781 kWh (technically 780.994 kWh rounded up).
I took some pictures last year of my production meter, maybe I will take new pictures and compare the data straight off the meter with the * data APS has and the data from the inverter. I don't think they allow customers access to the actual production meter data; assuming I am right, do they even keep the production meter data?
Just found this info, a bit interesting. Evidently Ms. Woolley went to "3 on your side" and complained about how she paid more for power AFTER the SunRun system was put in then before in contrast to what she was told when she leased it.
Quote:
In previous 3 On Your Side reports, Woolley explained how she wanted to go green and decided to enter into a 20-year contract where she agreed to lease solar panels from a company Sunrun.
"They sold us on the idea that with this number of panels we would have 100% of our energy needs covered," said Wooley.
Quote:
“Ms Woolley is currently on the APS Combined Advantage electricity plan. This plan includes demand charges which punitively charge the customer for their single highest hour of electricity use every month, no matter their electricity use the rest of the month.
Demand charges are more commonly applied to commercial customers and Arizona is unique in applying demand charges to residential customers. Demand charges are typically not a suitable rate design for residential customers because they are difficult for customers to understand and the variability in their electricity bills make it difficult for solar savings to offset these charges.
Due to Ms Woolley’s unique energy use, combined with her demand charge electricity plan, she is unable to experience the savings typical of Sunrun solar customers. Ms Woolley requested that we remove the solar panels from her roof and, given her unusual circumstances, we have honored her request.
The majority of Sunrun’s customers are charged on a volumetric rate, which means they are charged for the total amount of electricity they use over the whole month. These charges are more easily understood, provide certainty, and can be offset by solar energy that is generated during the day, providing the customer with more control over their energy bills and savings on their utility bills.
Solar power remains the most abundant, accessible and low-cost energy source, and Sunrun is committed to bringing clean solar energy to Americans. We continue to urge regulators and utilities all over the country to adopt customer-friendly electricity rates so that more Americans enjoy the choice to go solar and receive the health and environmental benefits solar offers, as well as lower energy prices.”
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