Solar Systems And Power Storage Options (credit, home, landlord)

[jimj]

I'm cross posting this as I found this (newer) information applies to those who have Solar, are contemplating Solar and are concerned/not happy with what APS/SRP are doing to those who are in the above described groups.

I am personally investigating these storage solutions as a means to negate or at least blunt what the utilities have been able to do to those who try to lower their power bills.

There are several companies that produce power storage/intelligent power management systems for residential customers.

Here is a very interesting link with information that absolutely applies with either APS or SRP.

The best uses for solar batteries

When you install a solar battery as part of your home solar energy system, you can actually store the extra energy your solar panels produce at home instead of feeding it back into the electricity grid. With solar batteries, you maximize your ability to use the electricity generated by your solar panels on a day-to-day basis. During the times when you need more electricity than your solar panels are producing (later in the day or at nighttime), you can use the solar energy you have stored.

Whether or not you’ll save more money by installing a solar-plus-storage system depends how your electric utility charges its customers. In states with net metering, you will typically receive a credit on your utility bill for every kilowatt-hour (kWh) of solar energy that you send back to the grid. You can use those credits later on when you need more electricity than your solar panels are generating. For homeowners in this situation, installing a solar battery won’t increase their savings: the electric grid is providing the same financial benefit as a solar battery.

However, some electric utilities are changing their rates in ways that make solar batteries a smart investment for homeowners. If your utility’s rate policy includes any of the following, energy storage can help you save more with your solar panels.

READ WHAT FOLLOWS!

The link goes on to discuss Time of Use and Demand rates as well as reduced/no Net Metering credits.

https://www.energysage.com/solar/sol...lar-batteries/

[AZ Manager]

Storage is a really bad option right now even on SRP. Using Tesla's Powerwall 2 I would need 4 of them to cover the majority of my grid draw on a daily basis, there have been 15 days so far this year that I have drawn more than 54 kWh so probably 5 but lets stick to 4. I'd probably also need to scale up my solar system a little bit to get better coverage during individual summer days.

4 Powerwalls according to Tesla would run me $24.3k, that does not include install. My understanding is that you only get the 30% tax rebate if it is part of a solar install so for me that would likely be a no but for the sake of argument lets say it was done when I installed my system. Total system cost was $25,006 plus the battery equals $49,306, tax rebate of $14,701.80 (assuming I have that much tax liability over 3 years) plus the AZ credit of $1,000 brings the total cost down to $33,304.20 (not including install of the battery).

I payed APS $3,005.79 in 2016 (last full year before solar) and this year I am estimating I am going to pay APS $430.04 (first full year after solar) but my estimate is probably a little high. That equals an annual savings of $2,575.75, this is based on the old rates obviously. If paid in cash it would take almost 13 years to get fully paid back. Financed at 5% your monthly payment would be $219.61 or $2,635.32 a year plus the APS amount my new annual total would be $3,065.36, up slightly before even considering replacement cost of the battery after their 10-15 year life as well as the loss of electric (Tesla claims a 90% efficiency but it isn't clear if that is including the built in inverter or straight battery).

I still wouldn't be able to go completely off grid and likely won't ever be able to go off grid in AZ without drastically reducing usage (as your link suggests), and that isn't going to happen. The tech just isn't ready yet unless you want to DIY it out of a used Model 3 battery or something along those lines. Maybe in another decade it will make sense, my hope is it gets there before my grandfathering ends, but it has such a long way to go I wouldn't be holding my breath. If you think about it because it currently makes sense financially in CA it will be a long while before it will make sense here, demand is quite a bit higher than they can produce currently; I don't expect prices to fall like we have seen over the last decade.

[Potential_Landlord]

You cannot be truly off grid without propane generator. There will always be longer periods of cloudiness, even in AZ. They happen more often than you think.

[jimj]

Originally Posted by AZ Manager

Storage is a really bad option right now even on SRP. Using Tesla's Powerwall 2 I would need 4 of them to cover the majority of my grid draw on a daily basis, there have been 15 days so far this year that I have drawn more than 54 kWh so probably 5 but lets stick to 4. I'd probably also need to scale up my solar system a little bit to get better coverage during individual summer days.

4 Powerwalls according to Tesla would run me $24.3k, that does not include install. My understanding is that you only get the 30% tax rebate if it is part of a solar install so for me that would likely be a no but for the sake of argument lets say it was done when I installed my system. Total system cost was $25,006 plus the battery equals $49,306, tax rebate of $14,701.80 (assuming I have that much tax liability over 3 years) plus the AZ credit of $1,000 brings the total cost down to $33,304.20 (not including install of the battery).

I payed APS $3,005.79 in 2016 (last full year before solar) and this year I am estimating I am going to pay APS $430.04 (first full year after solar) but my estimate is probably a little high. That equals an annual savings of $2,575.75, this is based on the old rates obviously. If paid in cash it would take almost 13 years to get fully paid back. Financed at 5% your monthly payment would be $219.61 or $2,635.32 a year plus the APS amount my new annual total would be $3,065.36, up slightly before even considering replacement cost of the battery after their 10-15 year life as well as the loss of electric (Tesla claims a 90% efficiency but it isn't clear if that is including the built in inverter or straight battery).

I still wouldn't be able to go completely off grid and likely won't ever be able to go off grid in AZ without drastically reducing usage (as your link suggests), and that isn't going to happen. The tech just isn't ready yet unless you want to DIY it out of a used Model 3 battery or something along those lines. Maybe in another decade it will make sense, my hope is it gets there before my grandfathering ends, but it has such a long way to go I wouldn't be holding my breath. If you think about it because it currently makes sense financially in CA it will be a long while before it will make sense here, demand is quite a bit higher than they can produce currently; I don't expect prices to fall like we have seen over the last decade.

There are other suppliers besides Tesla, some with higher turn around rates/storage rates and it seems lower cost. For those who don't fall into the grandfather category and for some that do it could make sense.
Just sayin'

[jimj]

Originally Posted by Potential_Landlord

You cannot be truly off grid without propane generator. There will always be longer periods of cloudiness, even in AZ. They happen more often than you think.

Actually, when you get 3 days worth of power storage you probably can, in AZ at least. Odds on more than 2 days of no Sunshine???

[Potential_Landlord]

Originally Posted by jimj

Actually, when you get 3 days worth of power storage you probably can, in AZ at least. Odds on more than 2 days of no Sunshine???

There was a 5 day stretch before Christmas 2016. A friend has a self-made battery array and it did not survive that time period. And that was in a period without AC use. It's doesn't have to get too cloudy to diminish solar returns significantly and if it happens only in the 11am to 2pm time period that's where you make most of the solar power - that will kill it.