If you feel Arizona education is poor ... (Phoenix: neighborhood, buy)

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Slater

There are (amazingly) poor families across this nation that don't have (or can't afford) Internet access. The local library would seem to be an important resource for these particular kids.

It would probably be cheaper to provide internet access.

[aileesic]

Originally Posted by Burning Madolf

Absolutely, only the rich and connected can learn to read.

Pouring money into poorly performing schools does not equal better results. I named several reasons why it doesn't work all by itself.

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by aileesic

Pouring money into poorly performing schools does not equal better results. I named several reasons why it doesn't work all by itself.

We agree on that point. This part is what I was referring to: " it's about parents with a combination of advantages (genetics, financial, family, culture, whatever else) and their endless connections to resources."

It doesn't take huge resources to read, that's what the public library system is all about. Even though it is financially inefficient (after all, it is a government operation), it is a great resource for those who have the drive to learn something, even if that something is just reading (as opposed to what you read).

[ringler24]

Originally Posted by aileesic

Pouring money into poorly performing schools does not equal better results. I named several reasons why it doesn't work all by itself.

Blindly pouring money into something doesn't equate with results, but paying teachers a better salary will attract and retain better teachers and teachers CAN make the difference. I've seen it in high need schools over and over again. Some of your presumptions about who can learn and who can succeed are alarming.

[exit2lef]

This thread brings up two separate topics that are only marginally related:

1) A low ranking in terms of K-12 education. As usual, this topic has quickly become an unproductive political debate.
2) A gripe about reference service at ASU's Hayden Library. What ASU is doing is pretty typical of both public and academic libraries. Standalone reference desks, distinct from circulation desks for check-out and check-in of materials, simply don't receive the traffic they once did. Most libraries have therefore consolidated all service points into a single desk staffed by paraprofessionals with escalation to a credentialed librarian available when needed. Maybe they should provide reference by voicemail?

[Hal Roach]

There is zero need to have a degreed librarian on a teacher's pay ladder in a K-8 school, and really not at high school or university, either, but large university libraries need an administrator, just like any other large university facility. A high percentage of items never get checked out.

Most people in education are very poor at economics and business, and "accounting" is a word not used. Police, fire, teachers..always want more, more, more..without any reconciliation of current economic conditions.

[PhoenixSomeday]

Averages are one thing. Or are they measuring median scores? In any case, it's not like the best school in one state is worse than the very lowest school in the next highest state. Some areas have really good schools, despite what any report says. People see State X as being ranked Y, and just assume every single school is crap. That's not how it works. Chandler, Kyrene, and Higley districts are highly regarded, aren't they?

But yeah, education is not all about the school; as others have said it starts at home. If the parents don't care, and the school can't get the kid going, they will fail.

Another factor is the student themselves being motivated. According to scores, my schools were allegedly not very good. My mom was nonparticipatory in my education; and even if I had asked her for help, she wouldn't have been able to anyway when it came to the the types of homework problems I would have needed help on. In my case, I wanted to learn. I read the textbook even when there was no school work to do. Just for fun. I also read encyclopedias and any other materials that looked interesting to me. I watched the discovery channel and certain TV shows that communicated the importance of learning and knowledge (Star Trek, Reading Rainbow, etc).

But, a lot of kids aren't like that.So if the school is inadequate, and the parents don't care....well...

[Burning Madolf]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

This thread brings up two separate topics that are only marginally related:

1) A low ranking in terms of K-12 education. As usual, this topic has quickly become an unproductive political debate.
2) A gripe about reference service at ASU's Hayden Library. What ASU is doing is pretty typical of both public and academic libraries. Standalone reference desks, distinct from circulation desks for check-out and check-in of materials, simply don't receive the traffic they once did. Most libraries have therefore consolidated all service points into a single desk staffed by paraprofessionals with escalation to a credentialed librarian available when needed. Maybe they should provide reference by voicemail?

The OP's title and poor attempt at correlation doomed this thread from the get go.

[ajonesaz]

Originally Posted by Voebe

And it is:

Arizona education scrapes the bottom ranks in the nation
https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2018/...ets-low-grade/

Well, I just found out that the ASU library has eliminated its traditional reference desk - you know, the place where you could seek a librarian to point out the best references for you, or call to get a quick question answered. They are so uninterested in actual interaction that you can now only contact them online. In fact, the ASU switchboard didn't even have their correct telephone number.

An almost 2 year old study that measured funding and not performance. Throwing money at schools does not make them better.

[life_explorer]

Originally Posted by ajonesaz

An almost 2 year old study that measured funding and not performance. Throwing money at schools does not make them better.

I agree with this. I grew up in poor Phoenix neighborhoods and graduated from "ghetto" Phoenix schools. Went to local university and worked hard to apply myself up the ladder.

As a result I was able to get great career and jobs and now far outpace most of my peers. I'm not convinced going to a more expensive school would have made my life any easier or better.