If you feel Arizona education is poor ... (Surprise: 2015, rentals)

[slowdude222]

My parents taught me to read. School taught me to memorize worthless crap. Keep reading, imagining and learn the truth from the lies. Schools are for extroverts, indoctrination and popularity contests.

[thinkalot]

Originally Posted by slowdude222

My parents taught me to read. School taught me to memorize worthless crap. Keep reading, imagining and learn the truth from the lies. Schools are for extroverts, indoctrination and popularity contests.

Anything you learn is not worthless.

[PolarStar0]

The library isn't the only thing. I agree with what that one poster said, that education is really changing, I just don't happen to feel like it's in a positive way. Of course, when things get out of whack or something isn't proceeding the way it's supposed to, not having an actual person in the library anymore to figure it out just leaves people in the lurch.

And I think that ASU must also feel like everyone can just 'learn everything from the internet', too, which is why you can't find anyone who can help with higher-level-class issues that you might have. When my son couldn't make the 1-hour window that the TA had for office hours, he went into the 'tutoring center' (I can't even type that without laughing). The people in there literally could not answer any of the questions that he had been given. And try finding a good outside tutor for diff eq or electrical. Ha, be ready to pay more than $50 an hour, on top of tuition, if they even show up for the appointment.

He has had at least one teacher every semester that stands in front of the class and rants the entire time, and expects the students to already know everything the class was supposed to teach. It makes me crazy. ~10,000 a semester and he's learning from the internet.

I'm probably an alarmist but how the heII this country is going to survive when we're turning out engineers with this kind of education system is beyond me.

[Arizona Mike]

Originally Posted by life_explorer

I agree with this. I grew up in poor Phoenix neighborhoods and graduated from "ghetto" Phoenix schools. Went to local university and worked hard to apply myself up the ladder.

As a result I was able to get great career and jobs and now far outpace most of my peers. I'm not convinced going to a more expensive school would have made my life any easier or better.

Same here. Most real education is self-education.

[PolarStar0]

As long as you're not my doctor, I guess

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by life_explorer

I agree with this. I grew up in poor Phoenix neighborhoods and graduated from "ghetto" Phoenix schools. Went to local university and worked hard to apply myself up the ladder.

As a result I was able to get great career and jobs and now far outpace most of my peers. I'm not convinced going to a more expensive school would have made my life any easier or better.

It sounds like you have a lot of horsepower and internal motivation. I get what you are saying. I grew up in a poor family and wasn't parented to do my best either. I too had built in internal motivation that others around me didn't have. But before we start patting ourselves on the back, it's probable that we had a built in bonus that is biochemically based.

Something as simple as having more dopamine creates feeling of being excited and more easily energized. Dopamine is shown to correlate towards more easily wanting to reach important goals. Checkout this research relating to what i just said Dopamine linked to a personality trait and happiness | Cornell Chronicle .

In my situation, all through K-12, I wasn't encouraged to do my best. No one mentioned or encouraged me to go to college and I was pretty much on my own. I finally figured it by myself and was the 1st to go off to college or any post secondary school. Some of my brothers dropped out of HS. When I got into the workforce, I looked around me while working at Honeywell as a technician and figured out I was missing out. That's when I went off to college part time while I worked 60 hours a week and Honeywell paid. It took me a little over 10 years to finish. Nothing could have stopped me from finishing because I was motivated and eventually finished in their electrical engineering program.

My point to you is that this situation of self motivation isn't typical and therefore it would be irrelevant to apply my situation to the averages. Let's rewind for both of us. Let's assume we were nurtured to do our best. Let's say our parents worked with us to extract everything we had to offer. And because we were smarter than average and more motivated, we learned more, gained more confidence, and kept on growing. Are you suggesting it wouldn't matter to where we are in life???

As parents, I viewed my #1 job was to extract what we could out of our children. Not in a "tiger parent" sort of way, but nurturing and finding opportunities to take them to the next level. My stay at home wife who gave up a killer career had our kids in all kinds of programs along the way. Like Boy's State. Or attending National History Day (they were finalists), etc etc. Multiple programs offered by our well funded district. There were college development programs in MN like paid college. So our two kids went to the full time university in 11th and 12th for $0.00.

Next up, in our sons case, he went to a top ranked undergraduate program. Arguably the most expensive UG program in the world; and he was selected for a scholars program. Several of his scholars instructors (about a 1/3) were ex Rhodes, Marshall, and Truman scholars. His class rank, UG degree, and visibility (along with being smart and tons of horsepower) will open doors wide open for the rest of his life. It's a public forum so I will leave it at that. It all started with K-12.

Let's rewind to my situation. I had ONE lousy meeting with a counselor in the beginning of 12th grade who didn't mention the word "college". I'd be lying to myself if I didn't think I fell short of my true potential and the school didn't do their job. Like you and over time, I have lapped the people I grew up with. I suspect a built in motivation (which is luck) is a big reason why I am where I am today. Although, my new motivation is to not work hard and enjoy life. If you think about it some more, I bet you left a lot on the table even though you are doing well. Congratulations that you "got out" and are doing well.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by PolarStar0

The library isn't the only thing. I agree with what that one poster said, that education is really changing, I just don't happen to feel like it's in a positive way. Of course, when things get out of whack or something isn't proceeding the way it's supposed to, not having an actual person in the library anymore to figure it out just leaves people in the lurch.

And I think that ASU must also feel like everyone can just 'learn everything from the internet', too, which is why you can't find anyone who can help with higher-level-class issues that you might have. When my son couldn't make the 1-hour window that the TA had for office hours, he went into the 'tutoring center' (I can't even type that without laughing). The people in there literally could not answer any of the questions that he had been given. And try finding a good outside tutor for diff eq or electrical. Ha, be ready to pay more than $50 an hour, on top of tuition, if they even show up for the appointment.

He has had at least one teacher every semester that stands in front of the class and rants the entire time, and expects the students to already know everything the class was supposed to teach. It makes me crazy. ~10,000 a semester and he's learning from the internet.

I'm probably an alarmist but how the heII this country is going to survive when we're turning out engineers with this kind of education system is beyond me.

Your son needs to learn how to figure things out on his own. That’s what the real world is. Or he could learn how to make friends in class. That’s how you actually get jobs.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64

Your son needs to learn how to figure things out on his own. That’s what the real world is. Or he could learn how to make friends in class. That’s how you actually get jobs.

To some degree (no pun intended), learning how to learn is an important skill.

[Voebe]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I haven't been to the library in 15 years. IMO as a country, we have way too many libraries.

I'm sorry, but I find that a selfish and pernicious mindset.

I've never in my life had to call on the fire department, and I hope I never will, buy I certainly don't leap to the conclusion that we should have fewer of them.

[JGMotorsport64]

Originally Posted by Voebe

I'm sorry, but I find that a selfish and pernicious mindset.

I've never in my life had to call on the fire department, and I hope I never will, buy I certainly don't leap to the conclusion that we should have fewer of them.

Fire departments have a necessary purpose. Libraries, other than providing AC for the homeless, can be replaced by the internet