Why don't most Phoenix area homebuilders include gas appliance hookups standard?

[Pink Jazz]

Note that barring any litigation, the DOE is proposing a national standard of 92% AFUE for gas furnaces in 2021. I don't see any Phoenix area builders or contractors willing to adopt such condensing furnaces due to higher installation costs and limited return of investment.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

Note that barring any litigation, the DOE is proposing a national standard of 92% AFUE for gas furnaces in 2021. I don't see any Phoenix area builders or contractors willing to adopt such condensing furnaces due to higher installation costs and limited return of investment.

Condensing furnaces are measurably cheaper to run and cheaper to install than standard furnaces - you don't need a chimney, you use plastic pipe. If there's reluctance on the part of builders, it isn't based on installation cost.

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

Condensing furnaces are measurably cheaper to run and cheaper to install than standard furnaces - you don't need a chimney, you use plastic pipe. If there's reluctance on the part of builders, it isn't based on installation cost.

However, the floorplans will have to be redesigned since condensing furnaces cannot be installed in attics due to potential of freezing (yes, we do sometimes see freezing temperatures in the winter). Most furnaces and air handlers here in the Valley are installed in the attic, which complicates things for condensing furnaces. Replacements for existing non-condensing gas furnaces will also be a challenge, unless they are replaced by a heat pump system and air handler.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

However, the floorplans will have to be redesigned since condensing furnaces cannot be installed in attics due to potential of freezing (yes, we do sometimes see freezing temperatures in the winter). Most furnaces and air handlers here in the Valley are installed in the attic, which complicates things for condensing furnaces. Replacements for existing non-condensing gas furnaces will also be a challenge, unless they are replaced by a heat pump system and air handler.

And installing hvac equipment in the attic (in non-conditioned space) is a terrible idea for both serviceability and efficiency. Whatever shortcuts the builders make today will have to be lived with (or corrected later) by Arizonians for decades to come. Natural gas is cheap and very good for cooking, drying clothes, fireplaces & heating water. If the average Phoenician had the knowledge of the cost differentials, there wouldn't be any argument.

[LagunaMom]

We had our house built all-electric in '75, and I'd never change. There was a time decades ago that there were several gas problems.

It's just easier. I don't like the smell of a gas stove. I don't want to be concerned about gas anything. Electricity is easy-peasy.

[nasu]

Originally Posted by timothyaw

CA city banning new natural gas installations. CA is bat crazy, one of many reasons I'd never live there. You'll have to take natural gas away from my cold dead hands.

https://www.berkeleyside.com/2019/07...ome-exceptions

It is that and getting crazier by the year. What keeps me here have been the best weather for growing veg and fruits, excellent medical care, 3 excellent Japanese grocery stores, lots of market options, SFO and SJC for travel without transferring, etc. But, there are so many things wrong with CA.