HB 2787: The bill to split Maricopa County into 4 (Phoenix, Buckeye: home, living in)

[phetaroi]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

There's nothing right wing about this idea, so let's put politics aside and think logically. Splitting Maricopa County would be the correct thing to do for all the reasons I previously mentioned. We now have yet another valid reason for why the county should be divided into several smaller counties: the 2022 election. What it came down to was too many people submitting ballots, but not enough people or machines to count them. To make matters worse, some of the tabulation machines weren't even working properly! More paperwork = longer process. The bigger the county, the bigger the bureaucracy. Large bureaucracies often translate to reduced productivity, as we saw with the slow tabulation process in this last election. Smaller government is better for everybody overall.

So it's not about politics...and yet it's about the 2022 election.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

So it's not about politics...and yet it's about the 2022 election.

The election argument is baloney. The percent completion of the 2022 results from Maricopa are better than Pinal, Cochise, Yuma, Mohave and others. Cochise supervisors just sued their own election chief to compel her to commit a felony regarding vote counting. Is that what we want with a bunch of partisan fiefdoms across the state? Anyway, elections are tiny part of what counties do. Thank goodness this and other cockamamie ideas will not see the light of day for at least four years. Maybe by then we will have a return to sanity in our state politics.

[asufan]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

There's nothing right wing about this idea, so let's put politics aside and think logically. Splitting Maricopa County would be the correct thing to do for all the reasons I previously mentioned. We now have yet another valid reason for why the county should be divided into several smaller counties: the 2022 election. What it came down to was too many people submitting ballots, but not enough people or machines to count them. To make matters worse, some of the tabulation machines weren't even working properly! More paperwork = longer process. The bigger the county, the bigger the bureaucracy. Large bureaucracies often translate to reduced productivity, as we saw with the slow tabulation process in this last election. Smaller government is better for everybody overall.

Head buried in the sand

[censusdata]

Interesting, in my native state of Kentucky there has long been talk of merging low population counties because of how much extra cost is involved in having so many (120) counties. Anyone know of a study for what the optimal county is for streamlined bureaucracy?

[Minntoaz]

What a positive thread… gotta love how some people insert politics into every single thing. That’s fine though split us into 4 counties. It’s about time. Maricopa county is huge. Way too big. Plus Maricopa county can’t manage to count votes so maybe the new counties could manage. It’s not always about money despite some posters comments. Sometimes the interests of the constituents and ensuring communities align is more important. It’s clear central Phoenix doesn’t align with the east or west valleys. Let them pass their ordinances and we can pass ours. I say let’s do this.

[DetroitN8V]

Originally Posted by Minntoaz

What a positive thread… gotta love how some people insert politics into every single thing. That’s fine though split us into 4 counties. It’s about time. Maricopa county is huge. Way too big. Plus Maricopa county can’t manage to count votes so maybe the new counties could manage. It’s not always about money despite some posters comments. Sometimes the interests of the constituents and ensuring communities align is more important. It’s clear central Phoenix doesn’t align with the east or west valleys. Let them pass their ordinances and we can pass ours. I say let’s do this.

Maricopa County counted votes just fine. Come up with an actual gripe.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by censusdata

Interesting, in my native state of Kentucky there has long been talk of merging low population counties because of how much extra cost is involved in having so many (120) counties. Anyone know of a study for what the optimal county is for streamlined bureaucracy?

Many states especially out east drew counties based on how long it would take it would take to get to the county seat by horse and buggy. But now I can handle things online and get to Phoenix from the other side in a few hours by plane. So those things no longer matter.

Local government consolidation is the only way to move forward. Arizona shouldn’t use eastern states as an example when something like 80% of Americans live east of Dallas as an argument for more counties. I live in Georgia now a state plagued by too many counties and it has been detrimental in regards to improving infrastructure in the Atlanta metro I’d hate to see Phoenix faced with that same issue. Especially when counties vote almost the exact same way with only hair splitting differences. Arizona is sparsely populated with a few populated centers, big counties is the way. Open land that has more scorpions than people shouldn’t have as much power as a county of a few million people. Open land like that needs to stay attached in governments with population centers to balance the scales.

Counties similar to Maricopa (large population) have the benefit to create specialized bureaucrats over generalists who have to wear different hats. Specialists are not only more efficient but can increase quality tenfold by being able to dedicate themselves to being an expert in X.

Here are a couple things that Maricopa County ALONE has achieved to help progress the NATION in terms of benefitting the citizens:
- Develop the first “Pool Code” which was adopted by the CDC as an official guideline for the sanitation standards of hot tubs, pools, and water parks protecting hundreds of millions of Americans from getting a water or vaporborne disease or safety issue at condo/apartment pools, theme parks, and even private pool engineering design.
- Phoenix metro holds many festivals and events that attract food trucks from all over the US and even internationally (Mexico). Maricopa County has some of the strictest mobile food vendor laws, so we often set the standard for the food safety and design of mobile food vendors everywhere.
- Have the ONLY mosquito laboratory of its analytical capabilities this close to the Mexico border, protecting all Americans by serving front lines of catching changes in diseases carried by mosquitoes brought in from the more tropical Mexico such as Chikungunya, Zika, West Nile etc.

The three things I listed above ^ would NOT be possible if Maricopa was split up. And this isn’t because of an excess of budgeting but rather A) by serving a large population, the county can have experts instead of generalists who can dedicate to providing a quality service B) by being centered in a large population center can pull from a large labor pool with more highly qualified candidates since Phoenix is a desirable place to live C) since Maricopa serves a few million rather than some hundred thousand can attract the attention of more state and even federal funding D) provide better quality service for rural residents who’d otherwise likely get no service at all, which would have increased regional poverty if without these services.

And there’s probably more that Maricopa has done to help progress and achieve that I’m not aware of. The only drive to split up Maricopa is motivated by political aspirations rather than any practical standpoint and in complete naivety of these accomplishments.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Prickly Pear

I live in Georgia now a state plagued by too many counties and it has been detrimental in regards to improving infrastructure in the Atlanta metro I’d hate to see Phoenix faced with that same issue.

The comparison to Atlanta is a good argument against too many small counties. The Atlanta Metropolitan Area is similar to Phoenix in terms of population and regional dominance, but it sometimes struggles with regional issues because getting all the counties aligned is essentially an exercise in cat herding.

[Prickly Pear]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

The comparison to Atlanta is a good argument against too many small counties. The Atlanta Metropolitan Area is similar to Phoenix in terms of population and regional dominance, but it sometimes struggles with regional issues because getting all the counties aligned is essentially an exercise in cat herding.

To me it’s Atlanta’s greatest downfall. You have a couple cities here and there but you have mostly populated unincorporated suburban areas resulting in extremely powerful counties trying to overtake the cities. This isn’t as much of an issue in Fulton because most of it is City of Atlanta or other municipalities (also 2022 Fulton County is the result of three consolidated counties) but a bigger issue in Dekalb, Cobb, Gwinnett… it seems every election season there are attempts to incorporate. I live on the border within the City of Marietta (county seat for Cobb County) a suburb I’d liken to the City of Mesa, but the neighborhood next to me just voted to see if it would incorporate into its own City of East Cobb and failed to pass. This neighborhood still uses Marietta as a mailing address. The reason is it didn’t want to take on the debt of the services it demands from Cobb County. It also refuses to join Marietta due to NIMBYism even though Marietta is one of the nicest suburbs in the entire metro (highest incomes, an amazing town square with well known markets and events). Meanwhile another area of Cobb county, Mableton, just voted to incorporate this cycle into the city of Mableton.

One of the more infamous events going on is the potential fragmentation of the City of Atlanta with Buckhead village incorporating into its own Buckhead City. This is unpopular with most Atlanta residents and even Buckhead residents but is being driven by Republicans from outside the metro in hopes of divvying up a Democratic stronghold by isolating Atlanta’s wealthiest neighborhood (Buckhead). I hope it doesn’t pass it would be detrimental to the metro’s economy.

What a metro needs is unity, not fragmentation and segregation.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Minntoaz

What a positive thread… gotta love how some people insert politics into every single thing. That’s fine though split us into 4 counties. It’s about time. Maricopa county is huge. Way too big. Plus Maricopa county can’t manage to count votes so maybe the new counties could manage. It’s not always about money despite some posters comments. Sometimes the interests of the constituents and ensuring communities align is more important. It’s clear central Phoenix doesn’t align with the east or west valleys. Let them pass their ordinances and we can pass ours. I say let’s do this.

Generally speaking, Arizona counties don't pass ordinances. Under the AZ constitution, they are administrative units of the state and have very limited self-rule. They do what the governor tells them to do. (Cities are quite different and can pass laws and thumb their noses at the governor much more)

Even if it were not so, what is the issue here? Republicans have gerrymandered county supervisor districts and, for as long as anyone can remember, hold 80% of the seats on the county board even though the county is 50/50 ish R-D and barely 1/3 Republican. If anyone should be upset about the balance of power it should be the Democratic areas of Tempe, Phoenix, Glendale,etc. Maricopa democrats outside of south Phoenix have essentially no representation even where they are a significant majority. I think the real problem for the split crowd is that the board is not kooky enough for the far southeast valley. Well, there is always Pinal.