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Why does there have to be a community of something? Phoenix is not like that, it is more divided into class than race. There are more gays here than Sacramento. In Sacramento all the gays hide in the closet and when they come out their are flaming beyond being annoying. In Phoenix some you can tell by the stereotypical, but some you cannot unless they tell you. There are bars, clubs, and restaurants based on gay, asian, southern, euro, ect. How much more is there needed beyond food and bars? Why does there have to be a self segregated area full of this type or that type? People in prison do that because of their lack of proper education, why do people that are free want to do that? I never understood the mentality.
For the people that do not understand the diversity that Arizona has over California need to open their eyes. A good example is the large recognition Arizona has of it's Native Americans.
I never implied that there needed to be a gay neighborhood. My experience here has shown that the gay community, while indeed spread far and wide across our area, is not much of a community at all. I can fully understand the need for people to live near others like themselves. The development of New York City involved the creation of neighborhoods for different nationalities and religions. That was and still is a natural way for people to assimilate until they are accepted. With gay people, generally speaking, our gathering together is considered a threat to others and we are not accepted. We are the minority that it's still acceptable to despise. So, in essence, gay people live in a virtual prison. We want to live where we are accepted and could live our lives as normal as possible. That cuts out large swaths of the country.
Location: Prescott Valley, Az (unfortunately still here)
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I used to live in Phoenix.
What made me and my husband move there was because I was thinking of going to court reporting school there. And he wanted to move back to Arizona (wished we didn't really). I went to the school, took the test, and passed. But it costed like $500 for the whole 1 1/2 year that was going to be there. So, I didn't go further with it. So, I wound up cocktail waitressing at a club, then telemarketing, and then a little retailing. Then moved to Prescott Valley in 2004.
I never implied that there needed to be a gay neighborhood. My experience here has shown that the gay community, while indeed spread far and wide across our area, is not much of a community at all. I can fully understand the need for people to live near others like themselves. The development of New York City involved the creation of neighborhoods for different nationalities and religions. That was and still is a natural way for people to assimilate until they are accepted. With gay people, generally speaking, our gathering together is considered a threat to others and we are not accepted. We are the minority that it's still acceptable to despise. So, in essence, gay people live in a virtual prison. We want to live where we are accepted and could live our lives as normal as possible. That cuts out large swaths of the country.
Sorry to stray a bit from the original topic but I felt like I need to express a moderate dissent to your post:
I can't speak from a gay guy's pov, but I know for sure there's a thriving lesbian community here in AZ, and the best thing is, once you join a mailing list of some sort, you realize there are tons of non-bar, non-drinking activities for socializing with other gays/lesbians (although there are of course bars, too, if you're into that). Heck, I could go out every night to a different event/happening if I chose to. Yes, it tends to be divided into 'West Valley' meeting groups or 'East Valley' etc. but that's just for practical purposes. I haven't encountered any clique-ishness yet...to the contrary, the lesbians here have been exceedingly friendly and laid-back. Very 'chill' and not overbearingly political. Also, I know in Central Phoenix, there's a free gay magazine called 'Echo' that has local happenings ads, and there's a community center for various purposes.
Having said that, it's true that I don't feel quite as 'out' in Phoenix as I did in SoFla. For example, I get the feeling that as much as people here like to claim the libertarian mantle of 'live and let live', what they really mean is, as long as you stay fairly closeted and don't hold hands in the street, and pretend to be straight in public, then we'll treat you like anyone else, and you're 'free' to do what you want. And unless you work in a liberal enclave, putting a picture of your same-sex partner would probably raise more than a few eyebrows and possibly endanger your work standing. I'm just sayin'. Because in SoFla most everyone is out, and the straight people still embrace you as a gay person...inviting you and your partner to dinner, etc. Here it's a bit trickier because you've got so many conservatives and you never know how they're going to react once they find out. Too bad for them, many gays would be conservatively inclined on other issues(ie. fiscally) if it weren't for sense that we aren't welcome. But I do believe this will change as the younger generation comes of age...they don't have the same kneejerk prejudices as we adults...I still have a lot of hope.
I never understood the need for homosexuals to label themselves and seperate themselvs and draw attention to themselves, like one often sees.
"I'm lesbian!" Well, good for you, but I really don't care about your private sex-life. Same if someone says "I sleep with fat people" or whatever. It's too much information, thank you very much.
But you see it so much. "Gay pride" and "gay bars" and "gay magazines" and even "gay friendly" cities and neighborhoods. Why bring so much attention to one's private life in bed? Is sex all that life is about?
I'll keep my sex life private, because it's not any of your business, and you keep your's private, because it's not any of my business.
Why is there a "need" to shout it out? I really don't understand.
I never understood the need for homosexuals to label themselves and seperate themselvs and draw attention to themselves, like one often sees.
"I'm lesbian!" Well, good for you, but I really don't care about your private sex-life. Same if someone says "I sleep with fat people" or whatever. It's too much information, thank you very much.
But you see it so much. "Gay pride" and "gay bars" and "gay magazines" and even "gay friendly" cities and neighborhoods. Why bring so much attention to one's private life in bed? Is sex all that life is about?
I'll keep my sex life private, because it's not any of your business, and you keep your's private, because it's not any of my business.
Why is there a "need" to shout it out? I really don't understand.
Ritchie,
You seem too stressed about it all...relax, I can assure you the gays aren't taking over. And you won't get cooties if a gay couple moves into your neighborhood, I promise.
Anyhow, your reduction of gayness to just sex is, dare I say, more a reflection of your own pervy inclinations than mine. lol. I wasn't even going there. In fact, I'm not really crazy about any pda's, whether it be gay or straight. But on the other hand, I'm not going to whine about seeing 2 people holding hands, whether it be platonic or romantic, or somewhere in between. Naturally, I'm just one individual, but to me it has more to do with an emotional bond than just physical attraction. But whatever. It's a free country and you can believe what you want.
As for having 'gay' magazines, bars, etc. Well, just like some people are into 'Golf', or 'Cars', or 'Celebrities', or 'Harleys', it's human nature for people with common interests to seek each other. It doesn't mean we aren't also part of a larger community or other mini-communties. And since there still is some prejudice(although fading rapidly), it's nice to find people and places that one knows won't be prejudiced, especially when initally moving to a new city.
As for my previous post, my intent was not to sidetrack the original discussion, and I feel bad that it's gone in that direction, but on the other hand, I wanted to defend Phoenix as a city that overall has a lot to offer, regardless of whether one is straight or gay(although being realistic about current potential limits).
I never understood the need for homosexuals to label themselves and seperate themselvs and draw attention to themselves, like one often sees.
"I'm lesbian!" Well, good for you, but I really don't care about your private sex-life. Same if someone says "I sleep with fat people" or whatever. It's too much information, thank you very much.
But you see it so much. "Gay pride" and "gay bars" and "gay magazines" and even "gay friendly" cities and neighborhoods. Why bring so much attention to one's private life in bed? Is sex all that life is about?
I'll keep my sex life private, because it's not any of your business, and you keep your's private, because it's not any of my business.
Why is there a "need" to shout it out? I really don't understand.
Let me weigh in here:
The ugly reality is there is a lot of homophobia out there hence Gays/Lesbians feeling the (oftentimes) justified need to be careful. Read that a man/woman walking down the street holding hands will not cause comment (except from a usually drunk idiot) whereas a Gay couple is at risk for at least slurs.
I may be Straight but I have no issue with LGBT folks----------as long as they do not try to blatantly 'hit on me'. Although in all fairness: virtually all Gay men back of real fast once I speak up.
"You seem too stressed about it all...relax, I can assure you the gays aren't taking over. And you won't get cooties if a gay couple moves into your neighborhood, I promise."
OK, now you are implying things about me that aren't true.
I guess I lived in San Francisco too long, where being homosexual is thrown right up in your face. People brag about it and flaunt it and think they are better than you because of it. I don't brag about or flaunt my sex life (or think I'm better), and I find it sickening that others do (whether straight or gay or whatever). I don't want to know what anyone else does in their bed. And I'm sure they don't want to know what I do in mine. But I find that happens all too often in the homosexual community. My impressions are that it is really all about sex, and that is from this brag and flaunt mantality that I've encountered so much.
And as far as prejudice people, there are all kinds of people who are prejudice about all kinds of things. Everyone encounters it at some point in their lives. I have several times. It is sad, but you have to get over it and move on. You can't dwell and focus on that.
As far as the assertion that I am some sort of "homophobe" I have three relatives who are homosexual, and, aside from what one uncle did that put him in prison, I have no problems with any of them. But the fact that I have to qualify this shows there are some amount of preconceived notions about me that shouldn't be there.
"You seem too stressed about it all...relax, I can assure you the gays aren't taking over. And you won't get cooties if a gay couple moves into your neighborhood, I promise."
OK, now you are implying things about me that aren't true.
I guess I lived in San Francisco too long, where being homosexual is thrown right up in your face. People brag about it and flaunt it and think they are better than you because of it. I don't brag about or flaunt my sex life (or think I'm better), and I find it sickening that others do (whether straight or gay or whatever). I don't want to know what anyone else does in their bed. And I'm sure they don't want to know what I do in mine. But I find that happens all too often in the homosexual community. My impressions are that it is really all about sex, and that is from this brag and flaunt mantality that I've encountered so much.
And as far as prejudice people, there are all kinds of people who are prejudice about all kinds of things. Everyone encounters it at some point in their lives. I have several times. It is sad, but you have to get over it and move on. You can't dwell and focus on that.
As far as the assertion that I am some sort of "homophobe" I have three relatives who are homosexual, and, aside from what one uncle did that put him in prison, I have no problems with any of them. But the fact that I have to qualify this shows there are some amount of preconceived notions about me that shouldn't be there.
In all fairness: quite a few of our local Gays look with askance @ the SF variety for some of the reasons you posted.
I never understood the need for homosexuals to label themselves and seperate themselvs and draw attention to themselves, like one often sees.
"I'm lesbian!" Well, good for you, but I really don't care about your private sex-life. Same if someone says "I sleep with fat people" or whatever. It's too much information, thank you very much.
But you see it so much. "Gay pride" and "gay bars" and "gay magazines" and even "gay friendly" cities and neighborhoods. Why bring so much attention to one's private life in bed? Is sex all that life is about?
I'll keep my sex life private, because it's not any of your business, and you keep your's private, because it's not any of my business.
Why is there a "need" to shout it out? I really don't understand.
Very easy to understand. You see a man or woman, you instantly think they are heterosexual and chances are very, very good that you're right. So how are gay people supposed to find each other without sticking out a bit? Are we supposed to flash a secret sign, wink, etc? If I came on to a straight guy, that could be dangerous (which is a shame really, just once I'd like a straight guy to appreciate my being attracted to him without the fists and insults). Truth is, gay people look like everyone else for the most part and need a little bit of help in identifying themselves to each other. Sorry you straight people find this tactic intrusive.
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