I normally don't bash on Phoenix...and this really isn't a bash... (photo radar, apartments)

[Arizona Mike]

Chicago's a nice city with a lot to do and see. But one of the differences that always surprise me between Phoenix and Chicago (or most other cities back east) is how much more common smoking is. It's probably subjective, but as soon as you arrive it looks - and smells - like every man, woman, and child in Chicago is sucking on a cancer stick. It seems much less common out here.

Obesity also seems greater to me in Chicago - I don't know if it's dietary issues or that people get out and move less in the cold winters (although you'd think the same was true with our summers), but that "Superfan" sketch they used to do on Saturday Night Live about the Bears fans having a heart attack each week wasn't just a sterotype.

[Lovegun]

The Detroit area has the best summers in the world

How is this so? I live in Chicago and think that Detroit area summers are quite comparable to Chicago summers.

[ArizonaBear]

As many of you folks stated: in defense of Phx; we have only really gotten big within the last 20 years or so.................

[synapse]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

As many of you folks stated: in defense of Phx; we have only really gotten big within the last 20 years or so.................

Right, and also in defense of Phoenix, some of the things that made Chicago great are just now starting to appear in Phoenix - urban development downtown such as public transportation (my wife has taken to calling the Phoenix light rail the "L"), interesting museums (I suspect the Musical Instrument Museum will be a highlight someday, the Heard is already renowned, and the Phoenix Art Museum has made some great strides), a park downtown (the Civic Space isn't Millenium Park, but it's a start), several interesting and new downtown restaurants (the Roosevelt, Fate, Sens, Pasta Bar, Turf Accountant, Hanny's, etc.) - and that's all in the past five years.

I don't for a minute suspect that Phoenix will ever be as impressive as Chicago, but then again, it's a western city. There is obviously going to be a difference between the older, dense, cultural, walkable centers of industry like Chicago, New York, Boston, and Philadelphia and the newer, car-driven, cities of western expansion like Denver, LA, San Antonio, and Phoenix. And that's OK - but I think there's nothing wrong with Phoenix having a downtown at least as interesting as Denver's and a cultural identiy at least as strong as LA's. That's what Phoenix should be striving for. To some extent, I do think it's making some strides - the Phoenix of today, though it has a long way to go, is far improved compared to, say, only a decade ago.

[synapse]

Originally Posted by Arizona Mike

Chicago's a nice city with a lot to do and see. But one of the differences that always surprise me between Phoenix and Chicago (or most other cities back east) is how much more common smoking is. It's probably subjective, but as soon as you arrive it looks - and smells - like every man, woman, and child in Chicago is sucking on a cancer stick. It seems much less common out here.

Oh, tell me about it. I was so happy when smoking was banned in bars and restaurants in Chicago a year or two ago, but from the noise from restaurant and bar owners and the area around Wrigleyville you'd think they'd banned alcohol again. It was nuts. And yet, when they did finally ban smoking, of course, it didn't seem to affect the bars or restaurants at all. If smokers didn't go to the bars, they were replaced by nonsmokers so glad to be able to go to a bar and not come home smelling like a cigarette. Whereas in Arizona when smoking was banned in bars and restaurants, it just happened - no problem.

I think it's a bit more visible in Chicago, too, though, because the rule was those smokers had to smoke 15 feet from the restaurant or bar - so you see a lot of huddled people smoking their cigarettes, stamping their feet against the cold and shivering in their coats. It's kind of a sad image, whereas in Phoenix, it's generally 70 degrees outside and you can just take a walk, have your cigarette, and walk back if you want to.

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

...it's just putting things into perspective, especially for myself, as I normally tout Phoenix as a 1st class city.

The other thing that really struck me was how odd Phoenix was. I know we're trying, and we've made progress, but Phoenix is still very much a "small town". Yes it may be the 5th largest (or 13th...whatever the number) in the country, but that's purely by population and really nothing more.
Just being in Millennium Park in downtown...with the ice skating rink right there...people everywhere...it just felt right. It didn't feel forced. People talk about that Phoenix has so many things to offer...like museums and such...but do we have anything that even remotely comes close to the Field Museum? Hardly. Their library downtown...massive old building, it puts the Burton Barr to shame and makes it looks like a small suburban spot. I know it's not really fair to compare because of each city's history but it still really puts things in perspective.

On a final note...something else that struck me as missing in Phoenix is a grand boulevard/avenue. Of course I'm comparing to Michigan Ave, but Phoenix has nothing of that width that can accommodate both cars and lots of foot traffic. The sidewalks are very wide, whereas ours in Phoenix are very narrow in most of downtown. I mean our sidewalks in downtown are the same as the sidewalks outside my house 25 miles NW of downtown. Something is not right about that.

Didn't you say something similar about a trip to San Diego less than a year ago? I don't understand why you have such a complex about the lack of urbanity in Phoenix. If Phoenix plays fourth fiddle to those cities, why don't you move? I don't understand why people stay in the Valley waiting for it to become San Diego or Chicago. It's not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by miamiman

Didn't you say something similar about a trip to San Diego less than a year ago? I don't understand why you have such a complex about the lack of urbanity in Phoenix. If Phoenix plays fourth fiddle to those cities, why don't you move? I don't understand why people stay in the Valley waiting for it to become San Diego or Chicago. It's not going to happen.

Jobs, for most of us. If I could afford San Diego or deal with the malpractice insurance crisis in Chicago, I would. Phoenix provides the best job environment for me, and if I'm going to be here, I want to invest energy into helping it be a great city.

[LoneStarJerry]

Originally Posted by miamiman

I don't understand why people stay in the Valley waiting for it to become San Diego or Chicago. It's not going to happen.

Maybe there are plenty of Valley residents who aren't waiting for it to turn into those cities, and are happy with it just being Phoenix. This is another apples & oranges thread basically.

[nebulous1]

Originally Posted by tripper76

Part of it is the density. Phoenix feels so spread out and monotone. To me it feels more like 100 little suburbs rather than an urban environment.

But, the weather, ugh, Chicago can keep that.

Having lived in 3 large Midwest cities and moved here to PHX:

I think Phoenix grew up very quickly, which amounts to urban sprawl, and more suburban growth. Phoenix is Phoenix, not Chicago. Just like Chicago is not Cleveland, but Cleveland has its own great things that Clevelanders know about.

I don't think one can say one city ANYWHERE is better than another, because there are so many VARIABLES.

I miss the trees and green back East, but I don't miss the ice on the roads. I would not be able to have a job driving to various sites all over if I lived back East.

But I think the bottom line, for living somewhere and liking it is MONEY. Yep, if you have enough money, you can be happy anywhere.

If you lived in Southern California and just were making the bills, what kind of life is that? But if you lived in St. Louis or Bloomington, Indiana and had enough money to live somewhere safe, could afford good food, had healthcare, and had money left over to enjoy some recreation and things, heck, that is what it is all about.

If you live somewhere that is a "First Class City" and you can't even afford to get past paying the bills, it doesn't matter all that much. Yeah, you can look at nice surroundings, but to me, it boils down to economics.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Arizona Mike

Chicago's a nice city with a lot to do and see. But one of the differences that always surprise me between Phoenix and Chicago (or most other cities back east) is how much more common smoking is. It's probably subjective, but as soon as you arrive it looks - and smells - like every man, woman, and child in Chicago is sucking on a cancer stick. It seems much less common out here.

Obesity also seems greater to me in Chicago - I don't know if it's dietary issues or that people get out and move less in the cold winters (although you'd think the same was true with our summers), but that "Superfan" sketch they used to do on Saturday Night Live about the Bears fans having a heart attack each week wasn't just a sterotype.

I think it has to do with vanity particularly with women since they wear less clothing here due to the heat and thus can't really hide their weight as they can in the midwest wearing heavier clothing. At least, that's what I've been told by several women. There is also this "Scottsdale effect" among women as they get plastic surgery and there is a lot of competition to be attractive. I can't tell you how many women appear in my office and they look like their daughter's big sister and I practice in Tempe not Scottsdale. As a physician, I can tell you that working out is much bigger here than in some of the colder states. Usually, in places like Chicago, the doctors get together for happy hour after a long day. Here, they get together at the gym and work out or play golf. It's very a different culture. I really feel like Phoenix is much more health savy than most cities although it still not as healthy as places like San Diego, SF, Portland, Seattle, Boulder, and Hawaii. But yeah, compared to Chicago..most definitely