I normally don't bash on Phoenix...and this really isn't a bash...

[nebulous1]

Originally Posted by synapse

Oh, tell me about it. I was so happy when smoking was banned in bars and restaurants in Chicago a year or two ago, but from the noise from restaurant and bar owners and the area around Wrigleyville you'd think they'd banned alcohol again. It was nuts. And yet, when they did finally ban smoking, of course, it didn't seem to affect the bars or restaurants at all. If smokers didn't go to the bars, they were replaced by nonsmokers so glad to be able to go to a bar and not come home smelling like a cigarette. Whereas in Arizona when smoking was banned in bars and restaurants, it just happened - no problem.

I think it's a bit more visible in Chicago, too, though, because the rule was those smokers had to smoke 15 feet from the restaurant or bar - so you see a lot of huddled people smoking their cigarettes, stamping their feet against the cold and shivering in their coats. It's kind of a sad image, whereas in Phoenix, it's generally 70 degrees outside and you can just take a walk, have your cigarette, and walk back if you want to.

Okay, smoking is BAD. We all know that one. But when your government starts banning things, look out. You might be all in favor of no smoking in public places, etc., but do you really want your government telling you what to do?
You see, it's a generational thing. I am old enough to remember when people would be outraged if the government said you had to take vitamins because they are good for you, or you couldn't bungee jump because it is dangerous. Freedom is what made this country what it is, and there are a lot of people making money going on the Today show telling us what is bad for us. Yeah, information is good, but kid you not, the almighty dollar is behind it all.
Be careful what you wish for. Coffee isn't good for you. Alcohol isn't good for you. In fact, alcohol causes cirrhotic livers and a host of other diseases, including fetal alcohol syndrome. You see, you can't legislate people into doing the right thing and not doing bad things to themselves. They always will. Everyone KNOW McDonald's is bad for you, yet some people eat lunch there every single day. Big Mac, Fries, and a Coke. But do we want to tell them they can't?

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by synapse

Oh, tell me about it. I was so happy when smoking was banned in bars and restaurants in Chicago a year or two ago, but from the noise from restaurant and bar owners and the area around Wrigleyville you'd think they'd banned alcohol again. It was nuts. And yet, when they did finally ban smoking, of course, it didn't seem to affect the bars or restaurants at all. If smokers didn't go to the bars, they were replaced by nonsmokers so glad to be able to go to a bar and not come home smelling like a cigarette. Whereas in Arizona when smoking was banned in bars and restaurants, it just happened - no problem.

I think it's a bit more visible in Chicago, too, though, because the rule was those smokers had to smoke 15 feet from the restaurant or bar - so you see a lot of huddled people smoking their cigarettes, stamping their feet against the cold and shivering in their coats. It's kind of a sad image, whereas in Phoenix, it's generally 70 degrees outside and you can just take a walk, have your cigarette, and walk back if you want to.

The smoking ban in Chicago took place at the start of 2008 so it's barely a year old and yes, you still see people huddling up and smoking outside bars whereas in Phoenix, you don't see a lot of people standing outside smoking or using the patios to smoke. The culture still espouses smoking in Chicago. I think the cold weather has a lot to do with that. It's just more pleasurable to have a smoke when it's cold outside versus standing outside in hot weather smoking.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by synapse

I think it's a bit more visible in Chicago, too, though, because the rule was those smokers had to smoke 15 feet from the restaurant or bar - so you see a lot of huddled people smoking their cigarettes, stamping their feet against the cold and shivering in their coats. It's kind of a sad image, whereas in Phoenix, it's generally 70 degrees outside and you can just take a walk, have your cigarette, and walk back if you want to.

"Generally 70 degrees"? Yeah, if you subtract 5 months of the year and average out the highs and lows during Spring and Fall, maybe!

The ONLY nice thing about AZ's summer is when Im there and I forget my lighter, all I have to do is put my cigarette to a rock and VOILA!

[_Charles_]

I have been to Chicago, NYC, SF, LA, DFW, Houston and several others.

One of the best things about Phoenix is that Phoenix is NOT like them. No offense to anyone intended but message to chronic complainers - pick the other city you admire most and MOVE.

I actually miss the way Phoenix was back in the 80s and earlier.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by _Charles_

I have been to Chicago, NYC, SF, LA, DFW, Houston and several others.

One of the best things about Phoenix is that Phoenix is NOT like them. No offense to anyone intended but message to chronic complainers - pick the other city you admire most and MOVE.

I actually miss the way Phoenix was back in the 80s and earlier.

Phoenix in the 80's was too small for me but to each his own.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by _Charles_

I have been to Chicago, NYC, SF, LA, DFW, Houston and several others.

One of the best things about Phoenix is that Phoenix is NOT like them. No offense to anyone intended but message to chronic complainers - pick the other city you admire most and MOVE.

I actually miss the way Phoenix was back in the 80s and earlier.

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

Phoenix in the 80's was too small for me but to each his own.

As both of you stated----------and, I did not arrive here till 1990.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by nebulous1

Okay, smoking is BAD. We all know that one. But when your government starts banning things, look out. You might be all in favor of no smoking in public places, etc., but do you really want your government telling you what to do?
You see, it's a generational thing. I am old enough to remember when people would be outraged if the government said you had to take vitamins because they are good for you, or you couldn't bungee jump because it is dangerous. Freedom is what made this country what it is, and there are a lot of people making money going on the Today show telling us what is bad for us. Yeah, information is good, but kid you not, the almighty dollar is behind it all.
Be careful what you wish for. Coffee isn't good for you. Alcohol isn't good for you. In fact, alcohol causes cirrhotic livers and a host of other diseases, including fetal alcohol syndrome. You see, you can't legislate people into doing the right thing and not doing bad things to themselves. They always will. Everyone KNOW McDonald's is bad for you, yet some people eat lunch there every single day. Big Mac, Fries, and a Coke. But do we want to tell them they can't?

You're 100% correct on everything you stated. However, you forgot one item: PHOTO RADAR, which is another large piece of the puzzle when it comes to intrusive government. In the last few years, the popular notion is that speeding is some kind of an epidemic here ... so we get speed cameras to make everybody drive ridiculously slow speeds. All it has done is increase commute times, and make drivers slam on their brakes, which contributes to less safety (not more). Plus it's all in the name of revenue generation for the government's coffers.

If I recall (I may be wrong), you posted before that you liked the idea of radar cameras slowing people down. So how is that any different than the other forms of overbearing government, which you correctly mentioned above???

[synapse]

Originally Posted by nebulous1

Okay, smoking is BAD. We all know that one. But when your government starts banning things, look out. You might be all in favor of no smoking in public places, etc., but do you really want your government telling you what to do?

No, of course not. But the smoking ban I was in favor of because it's a public health issue, and that, to me, *is* something government is supposed to do - promote public health and safety. Secondhand smoke is unsafe. The government didn't ban smoking, they just banned smoking in restaurants and bars. You can still smoke outside, so your freedom to smoke isn't truly infringed. To me, that's within a reasonable compromise between government restriction and individual freedom.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by synapse

No, of course not. But the smoking ban I was in favor of because it's a public health issue, and that, to me, *is* something government is supposed to do - promote public health and safety. Secondhand smoke is unsafe. The government didn't ban smoking, they just banned smoking in restaurants and bars. You can still smoke outside, so your freedom to smoke isn't truly infringed. To me, that's within a reasonable compromise between government restriction and individual freedom.

Very true............

Another thing the government is starting to really come down on is loud car stereos-----------noise pollution is bad as well and I have no desire to hear it while in my home.

[homlish560]

Sorry, I think the OP is off base.

Phoenix women are hot. Ok, maybe not quite like South Beach, but better than lots of other places.

Small town?????? I moved here from California and I don't think of Phx as small-town at all. It's different than Chicago - a lot more suburban-looking, and it's new compared to lots of other big cities, but it works just fine. When you have a place that expands for miles with Streets, Freeways storefronts, apartments, and houses, that's not small-town. You haven't seen small-town 'til you've seen Rural America.