Don't Come Here (Phoenix, Kingman, Page: salary, live in, restaurant)

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Tailofdogma

Plenty of neighborhoods in San Francisco do not get the fog rolling in every day. As such, they are warmer. Never warm like here, but still...

Can't argue point 2. Point 3 won't argue, but generally there are lower wages for everyone else.

Point 4 might be an issue if I golfed, but I can't stand it.

If it took you 3 hours to get from San Francisco to San Jose, you were doing something wrong.

SF doesn't require fog to be cold. The city still receives plenty of overcast weather with rain and wind. That is not fog and that affects all of SF. There is no part of SF that is devoid of that unless SF to you is Concord. It was cold and windy in SF in July despite the fact that it was sunny outside. You still needed a jacket and pants in the middle of July. Sorry but somedays I want to walk outside in shorts, shirt and flip flops. Even NY and Chicago has summer weather but SF never gets warm.

The wages in SF are not that much higher to compensate for the cost of living. Quick example, buddy of mine moved from SF. He is an Oracle DBA. He made 120K in SF, he makes 95K here. Do you really think that extra 25K in income really made a dent in regards to compensating for the increased cost of living in SF...yeah I didn't think so either

The only thing I did wrong was drive from SF to San Jose during rush hour. Granted that is atypical but it's not an hour drive. It's 45 miles so for most people it's 1.5-2 hours with traffic one way

[Tailofdogma]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

SF doesn't require fog to be cold. The city still receives plenty of overcast weather with rain and wind. That is not fog and that affects all of SF. There is no part of SF that is devoid of that unless SF to you is Concord. It was cold and windy in SF in July despite the fact that it was sunny outside. You still needed a jacket and pants in the middle of July. Sorry but somedays I want to walk outside in shorts, shirt and flip flops. Even NY and Chicago has summer weather but SF never gets warm.

The wages in SF are not that much higher to compensate for the cost of living. Quick example, buddy of mine moved from SF. He is an Oracle DBA. He made 120K in SF, he makes 95K here. Do you really think that extra 25K in income really made a dent in regards to compensating for the increased cost of living in SF...yeah I didn't think so either

The only thing I did wrong was drive from SF to San Jose during rush hour. Granted that is atypical but it's not an hour drive. It's 45 miles so for most people it's 1.5-2 hours with traffic one way

No, San Francisco to me is San Francisco, and if you mean low 70's and sun is cold, so be it. You sound more like you are referring to weather during the rainy season, which, conveniently, is during late fall and winter (when in our hemisphere its supposed to be colder.) True, SF almost never hits 90 (except those one or two times a year when the wind off the Pacific dies and the whole peninsula gets into the mid to high 90's. As I am not an exotherm, I'm fine with that. Once you adapt, you can toss on shorts and be fine.

As for the pay argument, I imagine we could bounce examples off each other all day long. My wife's position in SF paid 90-120K. Here, 50-60. It all depends on the industry etc. Yeah, I'd say there's a significant difference there.

As for the commute, I made the commute from SF to SJ. Almost always under 1.5 hrs down 280. Only really got hairy around Cupertino. If you took 101, you were doing something wrong.

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Tailofdogma

No, San Francisco to me is San Francisco, and if you mean low 70's and sun is cold, so be it. You sound more like you are referring to weather during the rainy season, which, conveniently, is during late fall and winter (when in our hemisphere its supposed to be colder.) True, SF almost never hits 90 (except those one or two times a year when the wind off the Pacific dies and the whole peninsula gets into the mid to high 90's. As I am not an exotherm, I'm fine with that. Once you adapt, you can toss on shorts and be fine.

As for the pay argument, I imagine we could bounce examples off each other all day long. My wife's position in SF paid 90-120K. Here, 50-60. It all depends on the industry etc. Yeah, I'd say there's a significant difference there.

As for the commute, I made the commute from SF to SJ. Almost always under 1.5 hrs down 280. Only really got hairy around Cupertino. If you took 101, you were doing something wrong.

70's and sun is ideal, 70's wind and rain is a different story! I didn't say that was cold, I just said it wasn't warm. That's not exactly shorts and bikini weather. I'm referring to your summer. Rain and wind is not limited to late fall and winter in SF. Im sure you can adapt just like I can adapt to 110 especially when I have misters and a cold Corono in my hand next to my swimming pool. The "adaption" you are referring to involves our fascia, which is thin covering over our muscles. Our fascia adapts over time to temperature changes which means it also adapts to high temperatures by getting thinner.

I will be more than happy to bounce examples. Just tell me the industry including your wifes. The point is the disparity in pay doesn't compensate for the higher cost of living. You will never be able to justify that argument. You can try but once we get to numbers, you will see how much of a fallacy that is. The point is people in SF are aware of the high cost of living yet accept it because living in SF is worth it to them. Even with your wife's example, if we were to compare 60K versus 120K, you will discover than 60K in Phoenix is equivalent to 101K in SF according to the salary calculator. And your example was extreme, according to payscale, none of the comparable jobs listed showed a difference in income exceeding 22K. In fact, a 100K salary in SF is equivalent to 58K in Phoenix. Most people can't afford to buy property and thus rent. Many don't own cars. However, if you plan to own property, even earning 120K per year versus 60K isn't that much of an advantage when you are paying over 400K more for a home. And yes, the type of home that you could get in Phoenix would cost you that much more in SF.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/City=Phoenix/Salary
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...ancisco/Salary
http://cgi.money.cnn.com/tools/costo...tofliving.html

[Tailofdogma]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

70's and sun is ideal, 70's wind and rain is a different story! I didn't say that was cold, I just said it wasn't warm. That's not exactly shorts and bikini weather. I'm referring to your summer. Rain and wind is not limited to late fall and winter in SF. Im sure you can adapt just like I can adapt to 110 especially when I have misters and a cold Corono in my hand next to my swimming pool. The "adaption" you are referring to involves our fascia, which is thin covering over our muscles. Our fascia adapts over time to temperature changes which means it also adapts to high temperatures by getting thinner.

I will be more than happy to bounce examples. Just tell me the industry including your wifes. The point is the disparity in pay doesn't compensate for the higher cost of living. You will never be able to justify that argument. You can try but once we get to numbers, you will see how much of a fallacy that is. The point is people in SF are aware of the high cost of living yet accept it because living in SF is worth it to them. Even with your wife's example, if we were to compare 60K versus 120K, you will discover than 60K in Phoenix is equivalent to 101K in SF according to the salary calculator. And your example was extreme, according to payscale, none of the comparable jobs listed showed a difference in income exceeding 22K. In fact, a 100K salary in SF is equivalent to 58K in Phoenix. Most people can't afford to buy property and thus rent. Many don't own cars. However, if you plan to own property, even earning 120K per year versus 60K isn't that much of an advantage when you are paying over 400K more for a home. And yes, the type of home that you could get in Phoenix would cost you that much more in SF.

PayScale - Phoenix City Salary, Average Salaries
PayScale - San Francisco City Salary, Average Salaries
Cost of living: Compare prices in two cities - CNNMoney.com

Man, even here I can't avoid fascia. My now med student wife is always throwing out anatomical bits and other similarly interesting things about our bodies. Anyway, one can adapt to being comfortable in shorts in 70 degrees. On the other hand, 110 for a while is going to blow your ALTs. Adaptation has limits, after all.

There is typically wind, but again it depends to an extent on the neighborhood. The entire area, San Francisco included, is littered with microclimates. The Presidio will almost assuredly be colder (because of more wind and fog) than the Mission. If your overall point is it isn't pool lounging by the pool drinking crap beer weather, yeah, probably not.
However

SAN FRANCISCO RAINFALL MONTHLY PAGE

It really doesn't rain in the summer.

As for the money, like I said, we can bounce things off each other. You are correct that for much, much less money you can get a great big mchouse down here. Oddly, thats the only thing I've found cheaper since I've been here.

Anyway, to avoid total threadjacking, everyone has stuff they are into. I don't care about sitting by a pool getting a sunburn. Clearly, this is an awesome place for that. No matter how much all these other people come here and complain, you still like hanging out by the pool, be happy with that.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Tailofdogma

That quote came up many times when I lived in San Bruno and it was 55 degrees in the middle of August with a fierce wind...

Tell me about it! And Daly City was worse yet.

I lived in San Mateo ca. 1979 and damn near froze my butt off in any Peninsula city Belmont on north. Now for weird: San Carlos on down were more pleasant; perhaps due to being warmer/drier.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Tailofdogma

Don't worry, most of the people in the Castro have taste...

Who needs the Castro District? We have our own vibrant Gay enclave right here in central Phx.

BTW: I may be straight but am not narrow.

[blisterpeanuts]

Originally Posted by Tailofdogma

SAN FRANCISCO RAINFALL MONTHLY PAGE

It really doesn't rain in the summer.

I thought it didn't rain in Indianapolis in the summer time.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

I thought it didn't rain in Indianapolis in the summer time.

Won't be able to get that song out of my head all day now.

[awf82]

Originally Posted by josehernandez017

This isnt a good time to come here. If you are from the midwest this place wont provide much relief. A lot of people come here expecting to find a better life and wind up with a big dissapointment.

I've met a lot of people from the midwest since arriving here that have lived here for many years and are very happy. In fact I haven't met any midwesterners that regreted moving here and many go so far as to say they'll never go back. It's all relative, you can only decide for yourself if an area is right for you. Phoenix is a city of transplants though. I've met hundreds of people here and only 2 have been born and raised natives most of it's citizens came from somewhere else.

[intmd8r]

Originally Posted by awf82

I've met a lot of people from the midwest since arriving here that have lived here for many years and are very happy. In fact I haven't met any midwesterners that regreted moving here and many go so far as to say they'll never go back. It's all relative, you can only decide for yourself if an area is right for you. Phoenix is a city of transplants though. I've met hundreds of people here and only 2 have been born and raised natives most of it's citizens came from somewhere else.

I don't think that's what they meant; I think they were saying that *right now* there isn't much relief here for people who are trying to get relief from some struggling Midwest cities.

It seemed to be more of a statement about the current financial state of the area here than about finding general happiness here if you're coming from the Midwest, but I could be wrong.