04-15-2009, 09:02 PM
6,710 posts, read
5,957,015 times
Reputation: 17076
Yeah, rules are rules, but forbidding someone from running a business out of their home seems a little excessive. And it's not a lot of traffic. It's like six cars in the A.M. and six cars in the P.M., at times when everyone else in the neighborhood is also driving to and from work. And the kids are quiet and well behaved; it's not like a big public school with lots of screaming and dozens of parents and teachers and so forth.
It's a good preschool, too, in a city that is woefully lacking in decent preschools.The instigator is apparently just one neighbor who didn't have the guts to complain to her directly. No HOA should have that much power over someone's life. In my opinion she should fight the HOA.
04-15-2009, 09:07 PM
6,710 posts, read
5,957,015 times
Reputation: 17076
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FlyGuy_ca
I wouldn't be happy if I had a pre-school operating next door to me.
What if you didn't even know they were there?
I'd rather have a preschool than an HOA, personally
Why does
anyone want HOA's. I can't believe there are so many of them here in libertarian Arizona. My philosophy is, I mind my own business and you mind yours and we'll get along just fine.
04-16-2009, 06:45 AM
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,107 posts, read
51,321,770 times
Reputation: 28356
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Uhuh
Um, don't move into a home with an HOA ?
It's not that easy. Virtually every neighborhood built in the last 15 or so years has an HOA and the older hoods are deteriorating as they do in Phoenix. Part of having a "modern" house here is having a HOA.
04-16-2009, 08:10 AM
Location: Louisville, KY
1,590 posts, read
4,631,385 times
Reputation: 1381
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blisterpeanuts
Why does anyone want HOA's. I can't believe there are so many of them here in libertarian Arizona. My philosophy is, I mind my own business and you mind yours and we'll get along just fine.
if you want an affordable newer home around here its forced on you. the developers start them when they start the community and there are very few options to dissolve them.
Ironically the HOA's job is to preserve the value of the property, but if you had the same sized lot and same house outside the HOA the home value would be increased....
04-16-2009, 09:17 AM
Location: G-Town
428 posts, read
1,066,266 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by
blisterpeanuts
Why does anyone want HOA's.
About ten years ago, we lived in a subdivision neighborhood in Chandler with no HOA - we moved out eleven months later. What did we get in that HOA-less 11 months?
1) A landscaping business run out of the house across the street where the owner did the maintenance work on his machines every weeknight from 8pm to midnight, which included running equipment, blaring salsa music and multiple employees drinking beer in the driveway like it was a local bar.
2) His next door neighbor who owned a mini-bike that apparently could only be started between 2-3am Friday through Sunday and run at full throttle for at least 45 mins.
3) The people on the other side who thought that the best way to dispose of old appliances was just to toss them out in the front yard & let 'em rot away. (Seriously, they had a washer, a drier and an old 'fridge laying in the yard, with weeds growing up through them, in addition to various other bits of decaying machinery. I never met them, but got the impression their mail was addressed to Fred Sanford & Son...)
4) A paranoid guy behind us who put enough floodlights on the back of his house to light up Sun Devil Stadium during a solar eclipse and set them on a hypersensitive motion detector. A bumble bee flew by and night turned to day. Our bedroom was in back and I felt like we were under a slow motion strobe light all night.
We moved to Estrella, where we got their HOA (which I've heard has gotten very Nazi-esque over the last few years).
1) The third day we were there we got a letter telling us we were not allowed to paint our driveway and had to return it to it's unpainted state. Since I'd never in my life considered painting a driveway (who does that?) and the concrete was less than 3 months old, I called & asked what was up: they'd transposed two numbers in our address and apologized. I drove up & down that street many times over the years and never once saw a painted driveway...
2) We got a nasty letter telling us we had to paint our DirecTv dish the same color as the house... no big deal, although the letter was very rude. (who cares?)
Then we moved to Palm Valley with yet another HOA and have been here going on five years and have never had the slightest issue. We have
wonderful neighbors, no appliances in the yards and the only time we hear landscaping equipment is when someone is having their yard maintained during the day.
So, based on our experience, we'd never live anywhere without one as long as we're in Phoenix.
Your mileage may vary.
04-16-2009, 10:03 AM
Location: Southern Arizona
9,601 posts, read
31,735,549 times
Reputation: 11741
Very valid points, Runemaster . . . BEAUTIFULLY STATED
In a perfect world, wherever and whatever that may be, HOA's would not be necessary or important, however, you have clearly pointed out a few of the reasons they should be considered our friend, not our enemy.
04-16-2009, 10:08 AM
Location: Metro Phoenix, AZ USA
17,915 posts, read
43,468,988 times
Reputation: 10728
There are good HOAs, and bad ones, as the posts illustrate. And, some neighborhoods (like mine, in Tempe) have no HOA, and are just fine. We are surrounded, literally, by subdivisions with HOAs, and realtors advertising homes in my area use "no HOA" as a selling point.
All sorts of different situations.
04-16-2009, 04:30 PM
6,710 posts, read
5,957,015 times
Reputation: 17076
Quote:
Originally Posted by
61scout80
if you want an affordable newer home around here its forced on you. the developers start them when they start the community and there are very few options to dissolve them.
Ironically the HOA's job is to preserve the value of the property, but if you had the same sized lot and same house outside the HOA the home value would be increased....
Can't everyone on the block just get together and secede from the HOA? Is there a state law that prevents this kind of thing? At a certain point, if an HOA is preventing an individual from fair and reasonable use of his property, it is in violation of some law I would think.
04-16-2009, 04:47 PM
Location: The Wild Wild West
44,660 posts, read
61,722,489 times
Reputation: 125848
It doesn't matter if you're in a HOA or outside an HOA when running a business of this type. In this case pre-schools must be licensed. In order for them to be licensed they must be in an area zoned for that type of business. Preschools have to be inspected by state regulatory agencies, have accessible parking and follow certain state/city rules and regulations.
If you are babysitting only, with 4 or less kids, you can get away without a pre-school license. But you cannot have more than normal traffic comming and going, plus the noise factor in a residential setting.
Capt Bill and Bummer make good points and information on this subject.
04-16-2009, 04:48 PM
9,091 posts, read
19,245,456 times
Reputation: 6967
you know the rules when you sign the contract - if you think the contract is in violation of your rights then you can contest it, but with something like this it would also fit into zoning, etc
also if it was only a few members of the HOA they could force you back in by saying that since you receive the benefit of the HOA you should also share in the cost
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Mean house or condo value by units in structure - 1, detached ($)
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Mean house or condo value by units in structure - 2 ($)
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Mean house or condo value by units in structure - 5 or more ($)
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Commute - mean travel time to work (minutes)
Travel time to work - Less than 5 minutes (%)
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Median year house/condo built
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Occupied housing units (%)
Vacant housing units (%)
Owner occupied housing units (%)
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Vacancy status - Rented or sold, not occupied (%)
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Poverty status for native-born residents (%)
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Residents with income below the poverty level (%) - White
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School enrollment - Not enrolled (%)
Median number of rooms in houses and condos
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Urban houses (%)
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Mortgage status - with mortgage (%)
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Mortgage status - with home equity loan (%)
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Mortgage status - without a mortgage (%)
Average family size
Average family size - White
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved within same county (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved from different county within same state (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved from different state (%)
Geographical mobility - Moved from abroad (%)
Place of birth - Born in state of residence (%)
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Place of birth - Native, outside of US (%)
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
Housing units in structures - 1, attached (%)
Housing units in structures - 2 (%)
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Housing units in structures - 20 to 49 (%)
Housing units in structures - 50 or more (%)
Housing units in structures - Mobile home (%)
Housing units in structures - Boat, RV, van, etc. (%)
House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
Renter moved in on average (years ago)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1999 to March 2000 (%)
Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1995 to 1998 (%)
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Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1969 or earlier (%)
Means of transportation to work - Drove car alone (%)
Means of transportation to work - Carpooled (%)
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Means of transportation to work - Bus or trolley bus (%)
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Means of transportation to work - Ferryboat (%)
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Working at home (%)
Industry diversity
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Most Common Industries - Agriculture, forestry, fishing and hunting (%)
Most Common Industries - Mining, quarrying, and oil and gas extraction (%)
Most Common Industries - Construction (%)
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Occupation diversity
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Most Common Occupations - Fire fighting and prevention, and other protective service workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Law enforcement workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Food preparation and serving related occupations (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
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Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
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People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
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People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
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People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
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People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)