Recommend a No salt Water Softener?

[azriverfan.]

Originally Posted by Driller1

Andy knows his stuff!!!!

I'm sure he does but I prefered Desertphile's response. I would rather work with someone who might know less but makes the consumer feel more comfortable.

[labratinaz]

Oftentimes, ads state "salt free" when they really mean to say "sodium chloride" or "sodium free". The sodium chloride or table salt is replaced with another salt of some kind. Generally, Potassium chloride is the substitute. So, if you use "salt free" anything check the label carefully.

[aquaman arbiter of truth]

[quote=azriverfan.;10917649]Andy

"I don't feel it's necessary to correct my patient when she says she is on a blood thinner instead of an anticoagulant."

That's just the issue Andy CWS (who is actually extremely knowledgeable; maybe so much so he struggles to bring it down to a layman's [or doc's] level) was trying to explain to you, if you'd open your ears instead of being so easily offended.
Sorry to be rough, but Desertphile blew smoke, while Andy CWS gave precisely the correct (if a bit rambling) answer.
You see, there is a different outcome with softeners and conditioners. It's NOT belaboring semantics as you assumed. A "salt-free conditioner" does NOT produce the same effect as a water softener.
A true softener actually reliably removes hardness (calcium and magnesium) by ion exchange with salt (either NaCl or KCl- both 'salts') producing truly soft water with all of its benefits.
A "salt-free conditioner" ('conditioner' is actually a vague, non-specific term used by salesmen to deceive victims into thinking it's something it's not) does not remove hardness.
Such devices (many of them don't even work) are in a category called PWC- Physical Water Conditioners. Or- they can properly be termed "de-scalers" , but not "softeners". Again, calling them "conditioners" means almost nothing, as anything that changes any condition of water fits that vague moniker. A water heater is a water "conditioner".
See why charlatens like that word? It doesn't nail them down to a true, defined application.
When they do work as intended, PWC's are not removing Hardness (softening) but instead, re-crystallizing the once-dissolved hardness at the nano level and possibly changing the polarity of the ions so that it doesn't attach to your pipes, water heater, dishwasher etc. That is a benefit, however it's NOT the same complete benefits of true softening.
My educated guess would by that the PWC's or De-scalers offer between 20-50% of the benefits of an actual ion-exchange softener. Most persons who've had the pleasure of owning a true softener would not be at all satisfied with the limited benefits of a PWC.

You said, condescendingly:

"I would rather devote that time to explaining more important issues like her INR levels and possible adverse effects of Coumadin. The patient understands the basic effect of Coumadin so why risk coming accross as being condescending by being nitpicky. I understood what she meant by blood thinner and it would have been belaboring a point to correct her. Whether I used the word softener or conditioner, I fail to see how that distinction impacted my question?"

Hopefully you now appreciate the significance of the distinction.


"Nonetheless, I will apologize as well for my first response. All of us work with different styles and I prefered the response by Desertphile"

Well, sorry, but Desertphile's response was inaccurate also. Sounds like the typical water softener salesman who only looked very shallowly into PWC's and prefers to make an inaccurate blanket judgement categorizing all of them ("all Bull----") as non-functional. Many are. He wishes they all were. You see, most water softener salesmen (I'm one) don't want to acknowledge, or don't know, that some PWC's do work, as it cuts in on some of their sales. But- some PWC's do work. Again-not as softeners, but as de-scalers. There is a significant performance difference.

I don't know Andy CWS personally, but it's obvious he does know his stuff- in depth. I grasped everything he said. It was quite accurate.

Desertphile is obviously a novice by comparison. Carefull where you place your trust because of style not truth.

Me- I'm a TX state licensed Water Treatment Specialist-Class 3, with 30 years of learning the industry.

[Andy CWS]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

I'm sure he does but I prefered Desertphile's response. I would rather work with someone who might know less but makes the consumer feel more comfortable.

Interesting point of view!

I have purchased in the past from people who made me fell all fuzzy inside and whooping in joy at the "deal" I got only to be very disappointed at the stuck window; leaky roof; or coughing, spitting engine.

Yes, an approach in all sales is to have the prospect feel good about the seller; if not, you can't get past first base. I know I have been in front of people who didn't care for the bad news I presented them about their serious water problems and rejected offers to correct the problems. I could have made them feel a fuzzy inside and sold some piece of equipment that matched their so-called budget. It would work for a while but then when it fails, I'm responsible.

Taking shortcuts in water treatment winds up cutting you short on results...as well as over extending that budget. This often happens when buying from someone who doesn't understand his industry, let aone his product... but if he makes you feel good--and that's important to you, then you're all set. But if it doesn't work, who do you blame? Really?

If you sell quality, price is the last thing you discuss; If you sell price, then quality is that last thing you WANT to discuss. My experience with "NO-SALT WATER SOFTENER SALES is they want youy to feel great about their product but fail to remind you of wjhat it won't do. That is why they ar primarliy on the internet. No service and often no response. Neither an office to go to nor techniction to speak with. That warm, fuzzy feeling becomes cold and rigid. "But he was such a nice guy...."

[Master Shake]

Just curious as to why you want specifically a no-salt softener? I'm sure you already know how they work, but the salt (or sodium) portion is actually the cleaning stage, and is not used to generate "soft" water. Water softeners use special resin beads which attract the calcium and magnesium from "hard"
water. This "soft" water then passes into your house.

Over time (usually a week or so), the resin beads become saturated with calcium and magnesium, and the water softener goes into a cleaning stage. This cleaning stage is what uses salt/sodium to pull the calcium and magnesium from the resin beads, and then discharges the solution into the drain. Once the cleaning stage is done, regular water passes through the resin beads to clear out any salt/sodium residue, and also goes down the drain.

I understand that some people believe they can taste the effects of a water softener, but this is usually more so with the older systems -- or it is simply just the taste of city tap water with the calcium & magnesium removed (there's still a slight presence of other chemicals present, such as chlorine). Many people usually add an RO system to their kitchen sink for their drinking water and ice maker to get rid of the remaining chemicals -- which is basically now the same quality as most bottled water.