CO2 Pollution Problem getting worse. (Phoenix: home, buying, living in)

[Arizona1]

Originally Posted by homlish560

This is such disappointing news - especially to us ex-Californians that moved here partly to escape all the bad Pollution.

It's from all the Gas-guzzlers on the Streets and Freeways. In that sense Phx is no better than LA - people here love their autos!!!!!

I'm wondering why Hybrids aren't being promoted more, and why Alternative energy hasn't been considered until recently. Solar would be an awesome energy source here because there's lots of Sunlight. How about Hydrogen fuel for cars? I think even former President Bush suggested that.

Here's the newslink source - happy reading!!!!!!!


CO2 pollution soars in Ariz., new study says

With all that no-man's land we have, maybe they can find a hole big enough to storage it and delay the warming bubble further on down the line for the Grandkids.Carbon storage? Not under my house! - Climate Change- msnbc.com

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by homlish560

When did I say I buy into Climate change???????

I am an admitted Environmentalist though, and am concerned about Air quality. Doesn't everybody like clean air?

There are things we can do to reduce CO2 Emissions and I already suggested a few of them. We don't even have to play Politics like you obviously are doing!!!!!!

CO2 has nothing to do with "clean air". CO2 is a colorless, non-toxic gas that makes up about 4/100ths of one percent of the air we breathe in and about 5% of what we breathe out. The level can be several times higher than that in urban areas, though. Even then, it would be undetectable to the eye, nose or have any adverse health effects. I think EPA may have labeled it a pollutant - but it is simply a background gas that is harmless in any imaginable atmospheric concentration. The "pollutant" label is so it could be regulated with respect to greenhouse gases and potential climate impact.

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by 58robbo

yawn! another one who buys into this climate change nonsense.

So I take it you are an expert on the climate and air pollution. Where did you get your Ph.D from? Or do you just watch a lot of Hannity, Glen Beck and and the rest of the cronies on Fox?

I myself am not an expert on the climate or air pollution and leave the scientific research up the scientists and let them come to conclusions about whether climate change is caused by humans or whether it is just a natural cycle. And when I say scientists, I do not mean the "scientists" funded by the oil industry or other special interest groups.

Example, the CEI created this public service announcement:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sGKvDNdJNA

Funny, I don't remember the CEI being a scientific institution, I alway thought they were cheerleaders for big business and $$$

Irrespective of that - the more cars/highways/industries - the more air pollution, which is amplified by the fact that Phoenix is in a valley where the pollution can't escape from. We need more solar power in the area, and more fuel efficient cars and better/more public transit.

[miamiman]

Anyone who is concerned about the increase of CO2 emissions in Arizona can feel free to leave and make the air that much better for the rest of us.

It's blatantly obvious that with an increase in population there will be an increase in emissions as well. Seeing as Arizona had 3.7 million people in 1990 and has 6.5 million people now, I would say that a 61 percent rise in CO2 emissions isn't bad at all.

[cmist]

No one points to the obvious? Mass transportation, more hybrids, etc?

When Howard talked about the same number of emissions are out there but just moving around from CityX to cityZ - it made me think that its possible Phx could actually be INCREASING total emissions. (If People from colder climates like NY, or Chicago continue to come here, we are gaining a person that may have been using mass transit, electric rails / subways and turning them into a 1.5 hr round trip freeway commuter each day because they have no other choice)

If Phx took some type of initiative on mass transit, or passed out free hybrids to everyone that moved here, we would then be able to DECREASE total emissions.

The average Phoenician has no choice but to cart their 2.5 kids around in a suburban.

[yukon]

Regarding solar, one of the reasons it's not more popular is initial cost for conversion. Yes, it pays for itself over time, but when money's tight, folks don't want a long payout. I did hear on the news this past week where either the city (Phoenix) or the power company is subsidizing the cost of installing systems on private homes, up to a preset number. Was it the city perhaps, with stimulus funds? Good start, whoever it is. One nice thing about solar is you can sell the unused power to the power company. Win-win deal for everyone.

[nickw252]

Yeah Yukon - I believe it is the city and it will be a huge program - I read about it on azcentral.com

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by nickw252

Yeah Yukon - I believe it is the city and it will be a huge program - I read about it on azcentral.com

Yes, it is the largest such solar installation program in the U.S. Also, APS, SRP and ASU are planning and building solar plants that will be the largest in the U.S. It is sad that China is using one of our Phoenix headquartered companes to build the world's largest solar plant in CHINA! Its good for our industry's success, but, hello, Sun=Arizona? Anybody? LOL

First Solar has German roots and is now a Tempe based company. Germany is the World leader in Solar Technology and use...yes, cloudy Germany leads the world...

They also have technology that uses little if any water. They use reclaimed water to clean the panels and none in the production of solar power. As a capitalist and American with socially progressive views, I am wondering why Arizona or Maricopa county didn't make it necessary to build homes after say the 1970's with some sort of solar technology attached. Image if all those houses sprawled across the metro had solar panels on the roofs...there's our power grid in a nutshell. Oh but I forgot, despite Arizona being "libertarian" and for "small government," we actually have huge socialist type legislation and BIG government intervention in Arizona that isn't very business friendly. Our water was government subsidized via the Water Reclamation Act (socialist), our roads are all subsidized (socialist), our electric grid is governmentally protected (socialist) and is a reason Arizona lost its solar industry to Europe (in the 1950's, 60's and 70's Arizona was the leader and innovator of solar technology), etc. Now, I'm not against some of these socialist programs like infrastructure for transportation and transit, but the anti-business regulations for power that lost our solar industry is a disgrace.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Yes, it is the largest such solar installation program in the U.S. Also, APS, SRP and ASU are planning and building solar plants that will be the largest in the U.S. It is sad that China is using one of our Phoenix headquartered companes to build the world's largest solar plant in CHINA! Its good for our industry's success, but, hello, Sun=Arizona? Anybody? LOL

First Solar has German roots and is now a Tempe based company. Germany is the World leader in Solar Technology and use...yes, cloudy Germany leads the world...

They also have technology that uses little if any water. They use reclaimed water to clean the panels and none in the production of solar power. As a capitalist and American with socially progressive views, I am wondering why Arizona or Maricopa county didn't make it necessary to build homes after say the 1970's with some sort of solar technology attached. Image if all those houses sprawled across the metro had solar panels on the roofs...there's our power grid in a nutshell. Oh but I forgot, despite Arizona being "libertarian" and for "small government," we actually have huge socialist type legislation and BIG government intervention in Arizona that isn't very business friendly. Our water was government subsidized via the Water Reclamation Act (socialist), our roads are all subsidized (socialist), our electric grid is governmentally protected (socialist) and is a reason Arizona lost its solar industry to Europe (in the 1950's, 60's and 70's Arizona was the leader and innovator of solar technology), etc. Now, I'm not against some of these socialist programs like infrastructure for transportation and transit, but the anti-business regulations for power that lost our solar industry is a disgrace.

Commercial scale solar does not use photovoltaics. They use mirrors to produce steam that spins turbines. The steam needs to be cooled to be recirculated and that is where the water goes - cooling. Just like Palo Verde uses enormous amounts of water, so would solar. It is a major impediment to solar development. Dry cooling is possible but more expensive and makes plants - which are already economically iffy - less profitable.

I guess they clean the mirrors with Windex, LOL. At any rate, cleaning would be a mimimal use compared to cooling.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

Commercial scale solar does not use photovoltaics. They use mirrors to produce steam that spins turbines. The steam needs to be cooled to be recirculated and that is where the water goes - cooling. Just like Palo Verde uses enormous amounts of water, so would solar. It is a major impediment to solar development. Dry cooling is possible but more expensive and makes plants - which are already economically iffy - less profitable.

I guess they clean the mirrors with Windex, LOL. At any rate, cleaning would be a mimimal use compared to cooling.

Yes, but that isn't the only technology employed, and definitely not in Germany. Water isn't used to cool anything as molten salt is the key to continued production of power into dusk and evening hours, therefore, cooling isn't a necessity for newer technologies. Water is used to clean the panels, radiating mirrors and satellite shaped "multipliers" to clean because I'm sure chemicals like ammonia in windex has some detrimental effect on the equipment. However, newer technology would see "cooling" with water a detriment to production.