CO2 Pollution Problem getting worse. (Buckeye, Pima: appointed, homes, to buy)

[Ponderosa]

Moderator cut: orphaned quote You don't know anything about it from your post. Molten salt you mentioned is used to make steam (superheated water) that spins turbines, needs to be cooled and used again. You need water for cooling in a cost effective design. The molten salt doesn't change the equation one iota. PG and E's plant they announced a couple weeks ago will use half a billion gallons a year. A plant in NV uses even more than that. You are sorely misinformed if you think that solar is not going to be a huge competitor with ag and even domestic uses for water in the SW. It is possible the solar companies will just give in and go to dry cooling, but that remains to be seen.

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

You don't know anything about it from your post. Molten salt you mentioned is used to make steam (superheated water) that spins turbines, needs to be cooled and used again. You need water for cooling in a cost effective design. The molten salt doesn't change the equation one iota.

Actually no, from a report at work:

Rice Solar Energy, part of a spin-off from United Technologies, is planning a solar energy installation in an uninhabited part of eastern Riverside County, California.

The system relies on melted salt - 4.4 million gallons' worth - in a 538-foot tower. Mirrors around the tower reflect sunlight onto it, heating the salt to such great temperatures that it retains a useful amount of heat seven hours after sundown.

The technology underpinning Rice Solar Energy's project, called concentrating solar power (CSP), involves 18,000 mirrors - called heliostats - aiming light at the tower. The salt inside looks like water when melted, says the California Energy Commission in its review of the project.

Little water used, thank you. Any way, everyone seems to want to argue tonight, so goodnight, ASU vs Oregon is on...

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

You don't know anything about it from your post. Molten salt you mentioned is used to make steam (superheated water) that spins turbines, needs to be cooled and used again. You need water for cooling in a cost effective design. The molten salt doesn't change the equation one iota. PG and E's plant they announced a couple weeks ago will use half a billion gallons a year. A plant in NV uses even more than that. You are sorely misinformed if you think that solar is not going to be a huge competitor with ag and even domestic uses for water in the SW. It is possible the solar companies will just give in and go to dry cooling, but that remains to be seen.

This is older technology, newer technology in use in California, Germany, China and soon Arizona operates with different technology. Effluent is used when necessary as well as sea water for the extraction of salt, etc.

If you worked with me, our German bosses wouldn't be to pleased with your lack of knowledge. As Heidi Klum would say in Project Runway, "Auf Wiedersehen!"

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Actually no, from a report at work:



Little water used, thank you. Any way, everyone seems to want to argue tonight, so goodnight, ASU vs Oregon is on...

As I said, the molten salt is used to make steam - it is the steam that spins the generators not the molten salt. The steam is in a closed loop and once it exits the turbines it is condensed back into water in a heat exchanger consisting of water dripping on "fins" - evap cooling. Copious amounts of water are transpired into the air in this process as you would see over Palo Verde or any or our coal and natural gas plants on a cold morning. The process is identical. Only the source of heat is different.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

This is older technology, newer technology in use in California, Germany, China and soon Arizona operates with different technology. Effluent is used when necessary as well as sea water for the extraction of salt, etc.

If you worked with me, our German bosses wouldn't be to pleased with your lack of knowledge. As Heidi Klum would say in Project Runway, "Auf Wiedersehen!"

This is not older technology. It is the way it is done - see my post above. Effluent can be used for cooling, but do tell, where is the nearest water treatment plant to your proposed desert solar? I haven't seen any oceans out in the desert either lately. The Phoenix treatment plant water is already claimed by Palo Verde.

Water is a big issue. I can't believe that anyone who has looked into solar for more than five minutes would not know that.

I don't work for you, thankfully, anf if your company is as ignorant about the technology as you are, it will not be in business for long. I think, however, that you have just googled around a bit, picked up a few terms and buzzwords and decided to present yourself as some sort of expert on the topic. It is clear you don't have a clue.

[cmist]

I have to admit I know little of the mechanics of solar power, and am a little less than interested. Maybe you should open up a new thread fcorrales so you can actually share this information for people that want to learn all about it.

The thread was about C02 in Phx. Certainly solar power is something to consider in a place with so much sunshine However, i will now have to wade through your lectures and references to project runway and Heidi Klum to actually read what people are saying about C02

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by cmist

I have to admit I know little of the mechanics of solar power, and am a little less than interested. Maybe you should open up a new thread fcorrales so you can actually share this information for people that want to learn all about it.

The thread was about C02 in Phx. Certainly solar power is something to consider in a place with so much sunshine However, i will now have to wade through your lectures and references to project runway and Heidi Klum to actually read what people are saying about C02

Actually this has a lot to do with CO2, as solar power would curtail much of that problem because of new power plants in Arizona contributing the largest gains in the growing CO2 problem. Maybe you should re-read the entire thread to understand where this problem is coming from and why solar is an important topic Moderator cut: rude

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

This is not older technology. It is the way it is done - see my post above. Effluent can be used for cooling, but do tell, where is the nearest water treatment plant to your proposed desert solar? I haven't seen any oceans out in the desert either lately. The Phoenix treatment plant water is already claimed by Palo Verde.

Water is a big issue. I can't believe that anyone who has looked into solar for more than five minutes would not know that.

I don't work for you, thankfully, anf if your company is as ignorant about the technology as you are, it will not be in business for long. I think, however, that you have just googled around a bit, picked up a few terms and buzzwords and decided to present yourself as some sort of expert on the topic. Moderator cut: rude .

Yeah all those scientist that First Solar and other leading German solar producers employ would be so consumed with envy that you know more than them! LOL I guess companies like First Solar are going to fold soon, maybe I need to start looking for a new job, according to Ponderosa! Wait, thank god I don't work for him!

[cmist]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

Actually this has a lot to do with CO2, as solar power would curtail much of that problem because of new power plants in Arizona contributing the largest gains in the growing CO2 problem. Maybe you should re-read the entire thread to understand where this problem is coming from and why solar is an important topic Moderator cut: rude .

Moderator cut: rude
Its enough to say that C02 could be reduced by the use of solar power. The actual nitty gritty of how the plants work would venture into new territory. There is clearly a disagreement, and NO ONE knows either way who is right in the arguments you are perpetuating. If they are interested they could find more reliable sources than you on the internet.

Although I take a little relief to see that you argue with everyone and not just me.

[Arizona Mike]

Originally Posted by Howard Roark

We would have been polluting the same amount in California and that CO2 does not necessarily stay put over the region of the source of pollution. The problem is people producing more polluters. See my previous post.

How many children do you have? If more than two, you are a bigger problem than the Californians with fewer children. Google ZPG.

My 3 kids will be the ones paying for your social security, and the interest on the "Stimulus" bill. As you age, you better hope people have more kids. Or else increase immigration, legal and/or otherwise, to pay into the social security coffers.

A greater pollution problem are all the people insisting on living in cold climates up north and back east. Heating a home through a northern winter creates much more pollution than air-conditioning a home through the summer in the southwest. Close down New York and Chicago, I say.

An even greater problem are all those people buying hybrid cars. Priuses (Priusi?) consume so much energy in their production as their parts are shipped all over the world in the course of their production (and their nickel battery production is an environmental nightmare for the people in China), so that when you roll one off the showroom floor, you've already used the equivalent of 1,000 gallons of gasoline. You won't pay off your carbon imprint until you've driven 46,000 miles. You would do much better to buy a 10-year old, used fuel-efficient car like a 1998 Toyota Tercel. You would have to drive 100,000 miles in your Prius before you could match the carbon savings already paid by the Tercel. You won't look as trendy to your pals at the Starbuck's, though.

Don't Buy That New Prius! Test-Drive a Used Car Instead

Go Green — Buy a Used Car. It’s Better Than a Hybrid | Autopia | Wired.com

Better yet, buy a damn bike and figure a good commute route.