Article on the safety and decline of Monroeville Mall (Pittsburgh: military, malls)

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by zip95

But... you can't seriously think that it's a good idea for innocent bystanders to inject themselves into a fist fight when no ones life is in danger...

Yes, with the large caveat of intervening only when it is clear which party is in the wrong, and that the wrong party is having the upper hand, especially when the innocent party is at a severe disadvantage. All those aspects were satisfied in this case.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

That's not what people are confused about--they are confused about how they as an individual should respond to the situation.

Use some type of physical force to remove (or attempt to) the offending party from attacking the victim - shouldnt be that hard to figure out.

Now admittedly if the aggressor had something more threatening to everyone like a gun or a knife that would make the choice harder, but that did not apply here.

[Evergrey]

According to KDKA's Marty Griffin, Monroeville Police / Mall Officials are blaming the recent rash of crime at the mall on the "bus rider" demographic... and are seeking to curtail bus service to the mall.

[zip95]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

According to KDKA's Marty Griffin, Monroeville Police / Mall Officials are blaming the recent rash of crime at the mall on the "bus rider" demographic... and are seeking to curtail bus service to the mall.

That solves 99.9% of the problem. It's a certain type of person who can't afford a car.

[neurodistortion]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

According to KDKA's Marty Griffin, Monroeville Police / Mall Officials are blaming the recent rash of crime at the mall on the "bus rider" demographic... and are seeking to curtail bus service to the mall.

Basically the same thing Century III did years ago, but by then the damage has already been done.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by squarian

Can we suppose that out of fifty men, not one was physically or morally capable of acting at that moment? At least one of the men at the Ecole Polytechnique that day - the one who hanged himself - seems to have later recognised that he behaved horribly badly. And by hanging himself, he proved he had some kind of courage. Surely he wasn't the only one who might have acted that day.

The horror of hindsight claimed an additional victim it would seem. I could see that. Looking back and second guessing one's actions, that seems very natural. Being paralyzed in the face of some wacko with a gun? That also seems very natural. Maybe not to you, but you appear to have some additional expertise in this area that most of us don't have. I believe this is influencing your judgment of others, neglecting the fact that most do not have this expertise, even in a group of 50. And nice job congratulating the guy with obvious psychological problems for falling on his sword. Not that I didn't already know where you were coming from with all this I suppose, but geezus.

Originally Posted by squarian

Likewise, can we suppose that out of the crowd of people at Monroeville Mall, not one was capable? And if this seems unlikely, what is the best course for the rest of us? Should we offer understanding gestures? Or is it best to make our disapproval plain, pour encourager les autres?

It isn't a matter of understanding or disapproval. If it were that simple, that the bystanders just no longer have a sense of moral responsibility, I wouldn't be here talking to a wall trying to refute your stance on this. I'm betting you can imagine yourself in that situation and would immediately understand what should be done. I imagine that situation and can understand the shock of the moment and what that does to one's judgment, and just standing there in the fog somewhat bewildered. You don't have that. Your life, I suspect from the vague remarks above, likely depended upon not being shocked by such things and being able to quickly assess the situation. I can't stress enough how much that is not the norm. I think you know this too but find it more interesting to cite a societal downfall.

Originally Posted by squarian

Because there is one more historical analogy which comes to mind: on the last night of the Titanic's voyage, we now know that some very ordinary men behaved with astonishing, admirable courage and self-sacrifice. Not because some kind of specialised training had inculcated that response, but because everything about their lives in their culture, to that last moment, taught them to do as they did. The expectations of behaviour a century ago were rigorous and unforgiving - and when the moment came for ordinary men to act, they did so according to the standards to which they knew they were expected to adhere.

I don't find this method of self-sacrifice to be equivalent though. They did not for the most part need to intervene but instead needed only to adhere to the moral standard of "women and children first", or attempt to shame others into adhering to it. That is my understanding anyway. So while they had some awareness of the fate that would eventually befall most of them, it was not the same sort of thought process required to assess and intervene in a fight.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Use some type of physical force to remove (or attempt to) the offending party from attacking the victim - shouldnt be that hard to figure out.

Of course there is a lot of vagueness even in your prescription (e.g., "some type of physical force" is extremely vague), and there are other prima facie reasonable options (call the police, yell for help, yell for the attacker to stop, gather a group first then physically intervene, and so on).

But generally I am not saying this is an impossible puzzle to solve, and in fact one of the observations behind what is known as the bystander effect is that if a bystander is alone, they are more likely to do something than if they are part of a crowd. So often part of what is happening is that rather than trying to figure out a reasonable response on their own, the bystanders are looking to each other for clues, and remaining mutually inactive as a result.

That's a major part of how people typically deal with unfamiliar situations--looking to others for clues--and often it is a good strategy. But in these cases it can have unfortunate effects.

So part of the solution is to encourage people to figure out for themselves what to do in such situations--again, the premise being that often people WILL figure out something productive to do, provided they approach the problem in those terms.

[gg]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Who the hell stands around & watches someone beat up
a young girl

Not in front of me. I would have taken care of business no matter what. Wish I was there.

[escilade18]

Same, that is honestly sickening that it had to happen.

[gg]

Originally Posted by escilade18

Same, that is honestly sickening that it had to happen.

Guess Pittsburgh is changing for the worse. Years ago that couldn't happen around these regions. No way would anyone allow it. Pittsburgh people would jump in and kick butt. I don't understand what happened to that? Maybe everyone is too scared to take care of that. Hope that is tried in front of me someday. They will be in for a rude awakening. Goodness that is some young girl!!!