You think its bad for PAT now, it's about to get A LOT WORSE! (Pittsburgh: moving to, horses)

[gg]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

And Gov DoNothing continues to, well, Do Nothing...

I know this won't be popular with you, but to be quite honest in this case, doing very little would be the best solution. Bailing everything out is cost shifting way too much. The gravy train needs to stop. We already have a drink tax in place for part of the bailout. What tax is next to pay the retired drivers, mechanics and top brass? If a company makes promises it cannot keep there should be a price to pay. Unfortunately this price is going to be felt by those who ride public transportation. I am in agreement with the government in this rare case. Let PAT figure its way out of this and stop giving them everything in the world, so they can give themselves all raises. There may be some pain now, but lets see what happens in 5 years.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I know this won't be popular with you, but to be quite honest in this case, doing very little would be the best solution. Bailing everything out is cost shifting way too much. The gravy train needs to stop. We already have a drink tax in place for part of the bailout..

So basically you're saying F*** the regions economy and the fact a majority of people wont be able to get to work, school, dr appts (Their Tax Payers too)....Will just let business and people pack up and leave region for locations that actually have better Public Transit and workers can actually get to work...because we should all hate PAT that much?

We should all prepare to sit in 2hrs worth of Traffic on Clogged Parkways, wasting our 5$ a gallon gas. Because we hate PAT....

Sorry but this type blind idiocy to the situation feeds right in to what Gov DoNothing his hoping for come election time. It will cause Pittsburgh to go through the Steel Collapse all over again....Its 2012 NO CITY in America is or can be Successful and Thriving without robust public transit systems, ask Detroit. NOT 1 City

Keep this in the back of your mind...US Steel is already contemplating moving it HQ out of Downtown (not saying its a direct effect of PAT), but what makes you think other corporate centers won't do the same if the majority of their employees can't get to work or get to work on time....

[BrianTH]

Keep in mind that h_curtis is a fairly extreme example of someone who absolutely refuses to learn anything about this situation or otherwise think seriously about it.

Of course he isn't alone in those tendencies--that is what the Tea Party movement is all about--but they don't represent a majority view.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Keep in mind that h_curtis is a fairly extreme example of someone who absolutely refuses to learn anything about this situation or otherwise think seriously about it.

Of course he isn't alone in those tendencies--that is what the Tea Party movement is all about--but they don't represent a majority view.

It just amazes me how some people can lack an understanding of basic common logic.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

It just amazes me how some people can lack an understanding of basic common logic.

When your beliefs rise to the level of a theology, logic has no place. You don't have to test your hypothesis against reality and facts, they're inconvenient and incompatible with modern "truth".

[gg]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

It just amazes me how some people can lack an understanding of basic common logic.

What do you want? More taxes? More propping up of a failing system? Why do I have to pay for the mistakes of leaders that can't negotiate properly and promise the world?

I think I understand the situation MUCH better than you and Brian. I feel the drink tax was more than enough. If that isn't enough, then cut back. If there are enough cuts maybe some competition will come in. Maybe PAT goes bye-bye and we create something new. Don't blame me for all this. I am just the guy that is paying an extra 7% on my beer or wine when I go out. Thankfully, I rarely go out anymore due to that tax. I sort of boycotted it. I don't want yet another new tax to pay for this failing system. Charge the riders more. No more overtime for drivers. Fix it!

[gg]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Keep in mind that h_curtis is a fairly extreme example of someone who absolutely refuses to learn anything about this situation or otherwise think seriously about it.

What is your solution oh mighty brian? What new tax do you feel we should add? Should we throw a new tax on water usage? Another wage tax? A mil or 5 on our property or properties we own? Where is this money coming from? I am all for trimming the fat. Seems some agree with me, since the news is reading in my favor. Seems the news isn't going all that well for you. Have you ever taken the bus? I suspect not.

People wonder why I use you and your when making a point. Look how personal people get.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I think I understand the situation MUCH better than you and Brian. . . . What is your solution oh mighty brian?

Get back to us when you summon up the courage to read the TFAC report.

Until then, you are just being deliberately ignorant.

[pman]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

I know this won't be popular with you, but to be quite honest in this case, doing very little would be the best solution. Bailing everything out is cost shifting way too much. The gravy train needs to stop. We already have a drink tax in place for part of the bailout. What tax is next to pay the retired drivers, mechanics and top brass? If a company makes promises it cannot keep there should be a price to pay. Unfortunately this price is going to be felt by those who ride public transportation. I am in agreement with the government in this rare case. Let PAT figure its way out of this and stop giving them everything in the world, so they can give themselves all raises. There may be some pain now, but lets see what happens in 5 years.

in the private sector that price would be born by the government since they'd be able to shed the pension obligations in bankruptcy, an option apparrently not available to PAT. what proof do you have that bland and his mgmt team are overpaid? that said, I would agree that simply throwing money at it isn't the answer...though it probably is part of it.

Brian-the tea party does not hold a lock on unthinking belief. those people exist in all areas.
I do find the list of routes that will retain off peak service interesting, perhaps it could serve as a guide to what routes should receive investment

Routes that would still offer later runs: the P-1 East Busway, G-2 West Busway route, the T's Red Line, the 8 Perrysville, 16 Brighton, 27 Fairywood, 51 Carrick, 61-B Braddock-Swissvale, 71-A Negley, 71-D Hamilton, 82 Lincoln, 86 Liberty and 91 Butler Street.

Read more: Port Authority committee advances plan to cut service, raise fares - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbur...#ixzz1sUvpIIrj

[squarian]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

Maybe PAT goes bye-bye and we create something new.

That seems to be where this is headed. On the one hand, Blackbeauty is absolutely right that a city of Pgh's size cannot do without a proper, functioning mass-transit system. On the other hand, we seem to be poised on the verge of a Khmer-Rouge experiment which will result in just that.

Presumably, eventually, if transit-friendly people can be elected to office in H-burg, some sort of phoenix will rise from the ashes - but anyone who thinks the interval will be good for the city is insane.