You think its bad for PAT now, it's about to get A LOT WORSE! (Philadelphia: bars, housing)

[ferraris]

BlackBeauty is on to something. Some people draw the line at things like having to make a transfer, walk to a farther stop, deal with more crowding during rush hour, and pay more attention to schedules (buses every 40 - 60 minutes instead of every 10 - 20).

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

So while he's willing to sink the 2 main economic engines of the state by suffocating their Transit systems....(Yes SEPTA will be along to play shortly)..To pander to a niche constituents that isn't anywhere near the majority of the voting block in PA??????

Potentially yes, in part because they could primary him, or sit out the general election. Or he could be looking ahead to a Fox News gig, or corporate directorships.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by robrobrob

I think everyone is looking at this the wrong way. The argument could be made that most of the state doesn't care about public transit in Pittsburgh or Philadelphia. A lot of people in Allegheny County don't even care about public transit.

We've been through all this before. If you look at any given part of the state transportation system in isolation, then the vast majority of people in the state won't specifically care about that particular part. But most people understand that you need to look at the transportation system as a whole, not divide it up into a million pieces and try to hold a statewide referendum on each piece.

So, the argument can be made that the Tea Party isn't to blame but the people who don't ride public transit in our two big cities and don't care if the PAT and SEPTA go under.

That's not exactly what they are thinking. They are thinking:

--No new taxes!
--We hate unions!
--People in cities are not real Americans!
--Public transit is for minorities and poor people!

And so forth. And in fact the one that really has Corbett stuck is the first one--no new taxes.

As we have gone through many times now, the state is cutting PAT's funding not through any special anti-PAT measure, but rather because when the I-80 toll fell through, that automatically cut funding for EVERYTHING the state was funding through that transportation fund, not just PAT, and not just transit, but also a bunch of road and bridge projects as well.

Again, if you don't fall for strange notion that each and every one of those systems and projects should be subject to its own statewide referendum, you should be able to recognize that this is a universal funding problem. Which is what Corbett's own handpicked transportation commission understood, and it duly recommended every idea it had for savings, which unfortunately doesn't add up to much, and then a bunch of ideas for raising the necessary revenues. And again, those revenues are not specifically just for PAT, or transit in general, but for all the different transportation categories funded by the state.

But Corbett is reluctant to support those ideas for raising new revenues. And that is because the Tea Party types don't care for commissions and facts and such--they just believe in NO NEW TAXES!

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by robrobrob

Again, I am baffled that the union is so slow to agree to concessions

They agreed to concessions in the last round of bargaining, and I am sure they will agree to concessions in the upcoming round.

And they were willing to talk about concessions after the last round of bargaining despite having a contract, but then those talks broke down, for reasons that have never been clear to me.

[Scott2187]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

We've been through all this before. If you look at any given part of the state transportation system in isolation, then the vast majority of people in the state won't specifically care about that particular part. But most people understand that you need to look at the transportation system as a whole, not divide it up into a million pieces and try to hold a statewide referendum on each piece.



That's not exactly what they are thinking. They are thinking:

--No new taxes!
--We hate unions!
--People in cities are not real Americans!
--Public transit is for minorities and poor people!

And so forth. And in fact the one that really has Corbett stuck is the first one--no new taxes.

As we have gone through many times now, the state is cutting PAT's funding not through any special anti-PAT measure, but rather because when the I-80 toll fell through, that automatically cut funding for EVERYTHING the state was funding through that transportation fund, not just PAT, and not just transit, but also a bunch of road and bridge projects as well.

Again, if you don't fall for strange notion that each and every one of those systems and projects should be subject to its own statewide referendum, you should be able to recognize that this is a universal funding problem. Which is what Corbett's own handpicked transportation commission understood, and it duly recommended every idea it had for savings, which unfortunately doesn't add up to much, and then a bunch of ideas for raising the necessary revenues. And again, those revenues are not specifically just for PAT, or transit in general, but for all the different transportation categories funded by the state.

But Corbett is reluctant to support those ideas for raising new revenues. And that is because the Tea Party types don't care for commissions and facts and such--they just believe in NO NEW TAXES!

hmmm,.... i think it's time for you to graduate to the "Politics and other controversies" page. You'd fit right in with those comments.

but everyone is right. It makes more sense to tax EVERYONE more with a fuel tax, and make them hate public transportation more, rather than collecting the millions in back taxes from companies in this state.

[LEFT]The amount of unpaid taxes from Allegheny County is $151 million -- enough to solve the budget crisis at the University of Pittsburgh and the Port Authority.

Read more: Big Companies Rack Up Millions In Back Taxes - Pittsburgh News Story - WTAE Pittsburgh

[/LEFT]

Pennsylvania Governor Rendell Opens PA Tax Amnesty; New Program Waives All Penalties, Halves... -- HARRISBURG, Pa., April 26 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ --

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by pman

even rendell, who clearly supported transit, couldn't get anything done. the legislature is very different than ny where nyc can jam anything down the rest of the state's throat and there's good and bad aspects to that.

Just to be clear on what has happened, Rendell tried to get the legislature to do something before the last elections, and they refused.

Then last fall, the legislature wanted to do something before the upcoming elections got near, and Corbett refused.

So the legislature is not really the problem at the moment, probably because each and every one of them will feel the heat as transportation projects are cancelled in their jurisdictions and the whole system falls apart.

The problem, at this moment, is Corbett.

corbett's transportation secretary is the only one I remember actually stating that rural roads require greater subsidies than transit.

That was somewhat encouraging, but of course Corbett also appointed the TFAC, and so far he is ignoring their recommendations.

[Blackbeauty212]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

They agreed to concessions in the last round of bargaining, and I am sure they will agree to concessions in the upcoming round.

And they were willing to talk about concessions after the last round of bargaining despite having a contract, but then those talks broke down, for reasons that have never been clear to me.

Then you want to take a gander at what Gov DoNothing's next excuse will be.....He's had an excuse for stalling every step of the way so far.

I'm telling you this is just smokescreen stalling tactic, he's not even at the table with the union and the PAT..

Not saying something doesn't need to be done about the PAT's legacy cost....but this is just a convenient excuse for stalling for the Gov.

[pman]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Buses can't be that empty considering Pittsburgh is a top 10 city for public transit usage....and the who knows the empty buses could a cause and effect of how unreliable and such a mess the system is now that people that can drive are choosing to do so now.

lots of cities have very empty buses...truth is usually somewhere between the protransit and anti transit. transit can be very useful but often is made less so by procedures that mire decision making in politics rather than making it a business of moving people. anyway, I'm sure the bulk of the ridership comes at rush hour, I'm mainly talking about off peak buses...which are probably the biggest money losers (in the short term). in my sporadic experience with offpeak PAT buses they're really not that bad. since traffic isn't really a problem they're fast and they've always been on time (or close to it). mind you, I've only used routes between downtown and city neighborhoods...notably the north side and east end along penn and liberty avenues. of course, I carry a smartphone so google maps tells me which bus is close and when it is supposed to arrive...if I relied on their website or just walked up to the bus stop, things might be different. I have no doubt that if downtown were a nightlife hub ridership would be better. some things bug me that are small. why do buses loop where they do (smithfield st, for example). the T doesn't go where it needs to, the (east) busway is probably too inconvenient to a lot of city neighborhoods for them to use it offpeak, etc, etc.

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Sorry to say but I think Pittsburgh needs to lose its mass transit system before people will wake up and understand how important it is to the regions economy and livability......

sadly, you and rob^3 might be right.

is it wrong that I thought Brian said corporate dictatorship?

[BrianTH]

Looks like it is time to post this again:

Save the Port Authority: We must invest in public transit or watch our economy wither

The Port Authority has not just cut costs. Since cutting inefficient routes and redesigning its 50-year-old bus-and-rail network to respond better to community needs, the Port Authority is carrying 50 percent more passengers for each hour of service than when Mr. Bland took office.

I'm not sure what buses people are referring to, but it is worth noting there are always going to be some lightly-used buses as they reposition (e.g., every weekday in the morning there are many lightly-used buses coming outbound from Downtown and Oakland as they head back to pick up another wave of inbound commuters, and in the evening there are many lightly-used buses heading inbound for the same reason). Also due to the imperfect alignment of commuting schedules, you need to run some more lightly-used buses on the edges of your morning peak schedule to maximize usage at evening peak, and vice-versa. And so on.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212

Not saying something doesn't need to be done about the PAT's legacy cost....but this is just a convenient excuse for stalling for the Gov.

Obviously you could be right, but I also think there is a non-negligible chance that he is looking for a face-saving way out of this jam--I'm not saying that is more likely than not, just that it is possible. And if there is a such a chance at all, we need to put as much pressure on him as possible to take that route, since the alternative would be a disaster.